phoenix-canariensis in london

Adrian Brattle
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phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Adrian Brattle » Thu May 26, 2011 10:15 pm

The success of Phoenix canariensis_CIDP in London is due to its dry climate.

The dry climate will give the big mature ones a cold hardness limit of about -10C

Outside of London, northwestwards where the climate is wetter, the hardness limits is about -7C

small ones from BnQ is about one third of its mature hardiness. So about -3.33C, if you take dryness into account.
Last edited by Adrian Brattle on Thu May 26, 2011 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Nathan
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Nathan » Thu May 26, 2011 10:17 pm

Err... ok then...
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by redsquirrel » Thu May 26, 2011 10:18 pm

homebase ones are becoming rare now icon_thumleft
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Nathan
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Nathan » Thu May 26, 2011 10:31 pm

Actually the success of Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's in central London is due to the mild climate, not how dry it is, as it never gets anywhere near as cold as -10C there anyway... The reason they do less well in most other places is because it is TOO COLD, not too wet as they grow very well in coastal Cornwall & the Scillies where it is VERY WET...

Phoenix canariensis grow better with plenty of water, just so you know...
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billdango
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by billdango » Thu May 26, 2011 10:37 pm

thats probably why they keeled over in southampton and fareham? we only had -7c here. butia capitata was undamaged in both places.
i know what i,ll be growing in future?.
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Adrian Brattle
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Adrian Brattle » Thu May 26, 2011 10:48 pm

Nathan wrote:Actually the success of Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's in central London is due to the mild climate, not how dry it is, as it never gets anywhere near as cold as -10C there anyway... The reason they do less well in most other places is because it is TOO COLD, not too wet as they grow very well in coastal Cornwall & the Scillies where it is VERY WET...

Phoenix canariensis grow better with plenty of water, just so you know...
Last winter in London -9C was recorded. Big mature CIDPs found undamaged. Yes, they do well with lots of water. Like what i said -7C in wet climates. Cornwell never get that low.


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Nathan
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Nathan » Thu May 26, 2011 11:10 pm

Adrian Brattle wrote:Last winter in London -9C was recorded. Big mature CIDPs found undamaged. Yes, they do well with lots of water. Like what i said -7C in wet climates. Cornwell never get that low.
Last winter it wasn't -9C in any part of London that Phoenix canariensis grow... :roll:

Cornwall does get that low, just again not in the areas that Phoenix canariensis will grow...

-8C is about the limit of them in the UK, no matter how big or how wet it is.
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Adrian Brattle » Thu May 26, 2011 11:39 pm

Nathan wrote:
Adrian Brattle wrote:Last winter in London -9C was recorded. Big mature CIDPs found undamaged. Yes, they do well with lots of water. Like what i said -7C in wet climates. Cornwell never get that low.
Last winter it wasn't -9C in any part of London that Phoenix canariensis grow... :roll:

Cornwall does get that low, just again not in the areas that Phoenix canariensis will grow...

-8C is about the limit of them in the UK, no matter how big or how wet it is.
i was just looking in to Roberts Lee riffle work. The is anorther palm lover. He found that its zone 9 in wet climates, marginal in dry parts of zone 8b

london -9C: http://www.wunderground.com/history/air ... atename=NA


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Nathan
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Nathan » Fri May 27, 2011 12:02 am

Adrian Brattle wrote:i was just looking in to Roberts Lee riffle work, he is anorther palm lover. He found that its zone 9 in wet climates, marginal in dry parts of zone 8b

london -9C: http://www.wunderground.com/history/air ... atename=NA
I am aware of who Robert Lee-Riffle is, or was, as he sadly passed away a few years ago. Even the driest areas of the UK don't equate to the type of climate he refers to. In dry arid desert type climates Phoenix canariensis can take -10C (if mature)...

And that -9C is from Heathrow airport, no where near inner London where Phoenix canariensis thrive. It got no lower than -4C in the centre of London this past winter, quite cold for there...
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Adrian Brattle » Fri May 27, 2011 12:23 am

Nathan wrote:
Adrian Brattle wrote:i was just looking in to Roberts Lee riffle work, he is anorther palm lover. He found that its zone 9 in wet climates, marginal in dry parts of zone 8b

london -9C: http://www.wunderground.com/history/air ... atename=NA
I am aware of who Robert Lee-Riffle is, or was, as he sadly passed away a few years ago. Even the driest areas of the UK don't equate to the type of climate he refers to. In dry arid desert type climates Phoenix canariensis can take -10C (if mature)...

And that -9C is from Heathrow airport, no where near inner London where Phoenix canariensis thrive. It got no lower than -4C in the centre of London this past winter, quite cold for there...
sadly where i am its zone 8a


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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by redsquirrel » Fri May 27, 2011 6:05 am

those zones are foreign climate based and dont give a true representation here Adrian
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Adrian Brattle
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Adrian Brattle » Fri May 27, 2011 8:26 am

redsquirrel wrote:those zones are foreign climate based and dont give a true representation here Adrian
I know its only minimum temperature based. Its doesn't take into consideration humidity, annual temperature and light conditions.


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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by jcec1 » Fri May 27, 2011 9:53 am

Adrian - I live in central London and have quite a few Phoenix canariensis in the neighbourhood - as previously stated, it was never -9 in these parts, it was about -3 or -4 minimum and was above freezing during the day. These temps only lasted for 5 days. There was no prolonged and hard freeze like the rest of the country where CIDPs succumbed. It has also been dry and warm here since early March which has helped as well.


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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Dave Brown » Fri May 27, 2011 10:11 am

I've lost Phoenix canariensis seedlings overwintre, in an unheated covered area, in the past due to not watering enough. I have also left both P caneriensis and dactyliferea in trays of water overwinter and not lost one. The surface of the water froze. One thing Phoenix canariensis doesn't do well in, is drought. It has to have access to water and grown naturally from a seed will be very deep rooted. They are quite happy in cool humid conditions and like to have air movement, as you might expect evolving on Atlantic islands. :wink:
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Adrian Brattle
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Re: phoenix-canariensis in london

Post by Adrian Brattle » Fri May 27, 2011 11:01 am

Dave Brown wrote:I've lost Phoenix canariensis seedlings overwintre, in an unheated covered area, in the past due to not watering enough. I have also left both P caneriensis and dactyliferea in trays of water overwinter and not lost one. The surface of the water froze. One thing Phoenix canariensis doesn't do well in, is drought. It has to have access to water and grown naturally from a seed will be very deep rooted. They are quite happy in cool humid conditions and like to have air movement, as you might expect evolving on Atlantic islands. :wink:
one of the things i picked up from Martyn Grahm work, is to get the hardy hardiness of young small ones is to divide the hardiness limits of the mature ones by three.

so Trachycarpus fortune is -18C when mature, -6C when young young

Phoenix canariensis_CIDP lats say -8C when mature, -2.66C when young.


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