anti freeze in bottles left next to palms yay or nay?

[cordyman]

I read the freezing of water generates heat but how does this favour compared to a never freezing body of insulating water?

[Conifers]

It's the process of ice crystallisation that releases a lot of heat, so water turning to ice is better than water with antifreeze that doesn't turn to ice.

[GoggleboxUK]

But water is a better insulator than a bottle of ice so it's a swings and roundabouts question.

I'm intending to use almost boiling water (if you fill a plastic bottle right to the very top it won't melt the plastic) and only put them out very late at night so hopefully the freezing temps will have gone before ice can form.

Of course, if we get a subzero month again this isn't going to work without changing the water 3 times a day.

[Yorkshire Kris]

It's the process of ice crystallisation that releases a lot of heat, so water turning to ice is better than water with antifreeze that doesn't turn to ice.

Yes thinking about it adding antifreeze to water does not help as the plants don't have anti freeze in them. If the water in the bottles stays liquid at -1/-2 with antifreeze in it the plant tissue wont, as they will still be -1/-2 and therefore freeze.

[Trudytropics]

It's the process of ice crystallisation that releases a lot of heat, so water turning to ice is better than water with antifreeze that doesn't turn to ice.

Yes thinking about it adding antifreeze to water does not help as the plants don't have anti freeze in them. If the water in the bottles stays liquid at -1/-2 with antifreeze in it the plant tissue wont, as they will still be -1/-2 and therefore freeze.

Unless you use plant anti-freeze (crop aid) also, its for crops in the main, but demo pictures show cyclamens.
This may give plants a few extra degrees comfort

[Nigel Fear]

Don't know much about antifreeze vs. just water, but boiled water will freeze quicker than tap water.

[billdango]

Just tuck a nice fat hot water bottle wrapped in a blanket against the palm trunck and it should help. Thats what i am going to do with my Syagrus Romanzoffianum this winter esp on the coldest nights.
It has to be better then nothing.
billdango.

[kata]

Ok I wrote to my Trachi supplier (Michael)

I asked about protection, I will share the return e-mail with you.

Hi Kate

Your fortunei should survive unprotected up to -15. If its -8 during the night and still below zero during the day and -8 again, this will act like -16. The plant must defrost during the day. My suggestion is when really cold throw an old blanket over plant and remove again when it warms up.

[Tom2006]

Just tuck a nice fat hot water bottle wrapped in a blanket against the palm trunck and it should help. Thats what i am going to do with my Syagrus Romanzoffianum this winter esp on the coldest nights.
It has to be better then nothing.
billdango.

I'm thinking of this as well. Along with one in the crown of my Dicksonia antarctica's (although not directly on top)

[GREVILLE]

I used to use warm water in bottles wrapped in a few layers of newspaper under a protective cover when my planted exotics were younger. This did keep in the heat for a little longer but I found the addition of a pre-heated night storage heater brick with the bottles even more successful. I noted one morning after a night freeze that the water bottles on their own were showing a little icing but those with the heated brick were ice-free.

I admit this wasn't much of a test because for many years the lowest minimum I recorded was -3c. The last winter saw off two of my established exotics but they were far too big to benefit from this type of protection.

[Adrian]

It's the process of ice crystallisation that releases a lot of heat, so water turning to ice is better than water with antifreeze that doesn't turn to ice.

Sorry mate but what a load of load of shallots.
If you stood naked in freezing cold weather would ytou rather hold on to a bottle of water in the process of freezing or hold a bottle of water that wont freeze ?
I know what Id have.

[Dave Brown]

We are warm blooded Ade, so both would feel cold and eventually cause numbness. water gives up heat as it freezes, with antifreeze that won't happen.

[Adrian]

OK so say water gives off heat as it freezes, I dont know but Im willing to believe you, trouble is that after its frozen then you are bang in trouble, you are effectively wrapping your plants with blocks of ice .
No I dont get it.

[Mr List]

isnt it more that the water takes the cold out of the air rather than give off heat?

endothermic not exothermic.

[Vagetarian]

No, it's just that the 'heat' that it gives off is not really very 'hot'.

The difference between a liquid and a solid (and a gas of course) is that the molecules move around in a liquid (more so in a gas) and this is energy. To freeze the liquid into a solid that energy needs to be removed, and it is removed as heat.

The water with antifreeze will keep cooling down to the liquids new freezing temperature without stopping.

The plain water will reach 0C where it will stop until it has finished freezing (because the freezing process is releasing the energy from the water) and will then continue to cool further. Therefore, you would probably be better off without the anti freeze.