Composting (60/40% greens/carbon)

[Libby]

I have never been successful with composting, but keep trying. I do mix what goes in, using cardboard and shredded paper. I will get hold of some more horsemanure to get the new bin started. I also have bokashi bins, I'm thrilled they can be added direct to the compost, I didn't realise this, so will start afresh!

[Dim]

I bought a tumbler composting bin today from the tip for a fiver .... it's one of these:



I am going to try this and see if it speeds things up .... It's solidly constructed, has holes in the walls, and has a very solid screw on lid ...

I will transfer all the contents from one of my bins that is full and give it a 'whirl' once or twice a week and compare

just not sure how it will effect the earthworms though, as my bins have zillions of them .... they can exit into the ground at will when conditions become bad for them, but in the tumbler, they have no exit route as it's above ground

[flounder]

Honestly? I think you wasted a fiver.
Those things are a pita once the stuff inside starts decomposing, you'll have forearms like Geoff Capes by the time you take it back to the tip because of the work involved in turning it

[Leigh]

Earthworms don't live in compost Dim, but I know what you mean, and as Flounder said those tumbler bins are cr#p

[Dim]

Earthworms don't live in compost Dim, but I know what you mean, and as Flounder said those tumbler bins are cr#p

Hmmmm.... my dalek bins have zillions of earthworms, so yes, earthworms do live in compost bins ....

I have not transfered the compost yet, but will most probably do that 2morrow

I have read good reviews on several forums from people who own tumbler compost bins .... my one seems solidly constructed, and has bearings on the sides with a handle on the bottom.

I very much doubt that I will not be able to turn it easily (I eat scottish oats every morning) and have a huge spinach patch

but I will keep you updated .... if it does speed up composting, I will be well pleased, as my 1st bin is still not 100% ready, and it's been just over a year now (I have 4 dalek bins on the go) and I use the correct nitrogen/carbon ratio, and the correct moisture

these cost over £130 new, so there must be a reason?

[Steph]

Given up composting myself, takes up too much precious space & takes too much time.
I just fill the green bag for the bin men these days.
Seemed to spend an eternity nonsing about with compost heaps, I mean they went on for years before they were ready.
And they were never 100% ready always involed sorting out the twigs and stuff to speed things up.

The tumbler was a nightmare, each time you turned it, any fine (good compost) would drop thru the holes, so all you turned was binfull of sticks & twigs.

[Dim]

Given up composting myself, takes up too much precious space & takes too much time.
I just fill the green bag for the bin men these days.
Seemed to spend an eternity nonsing about with compost heaps, I mean they went on for years before they were ready.
And they were never 100% ready always involed sorting out the twigs and stuff to speed things up.

The tumbler was a nightmare, each time you turned it, any fine (good compost) would drop thru the holes, so all you turned was binfull of sticks & twigs.

there are not many holes, but I assume that if the compost is damp enough, it should work without spilling the compost

time will tell ... but I will give it a try

[flounder]

Earthworms don't live in compost Dim, but I know what you mean, and as Flounder said those tumbler bins are cr#p

Hmmmm.... my dalek bins have zillions of earthworms, so yes, earthworms do live in compost bins ....

I have not transfered the compost yet, but will most probably do that 2morrow

I have read good reviews on several forums from people who own tumbler compost bins .... my one seems solidly constructed, and has bearings on the sides with a handle on the bottom.

I very much doubt that I will not be able to turn it easily (I eat scottish oats every morning) and have a huge spinach patch

but I will keep you updated .... if it does speed up composting, I will be well pleased, as my 1st bin is still not 100% ready, and it's been just over a year now (I have 4 dalek bins on the go) and I use the correct nitrogen/carbon ratio, and the correct moisture

these cost over £130 new, so there must be a reason?

Yes, you're right. I think Leigh was referring to lob worm type things such as Lumbricus terrestris. What you commonly find in compost bins are Eisenia veneta, a sort of brandling or tiger worm

[Birmingham Chris]

Earthworms don't livei in compost bins (except perhaps not effective ones), the temperature is too high for them. They are brandling or Tiger worms (as said) and a pot of them can be bought for a quid at a fishing tackle shop and added.

Also, lining a bin with black plastic is not particularly effective - generally, the temps inside are higher than those outside (except in this weather!) - black plastic may insulate it a bit, but a bin covered in black (or painted) is much better: black doesn't absorb 'heat', it just reflects less radiation which means more 'heat' gets inside (a black bin bag in the shade will not get hot, even if the sun is out because it is not absorbing heat, and is not in line of radiation); in the sun, it is effectively absorbing the UV light waves which is why many tribes wear black in deserts. Heat is an abstract concept - radiation (mainly UVC) transfers energy to any molecules it hits which, in turn, makes the molecules vibrate faster which makes them release energy - partly as heat. However, radiation can only cause this to happen (only creates 'heat') when it hits a surface which is has less energetic molecules (cold surface): a hot surface already has excited molecules which is why it will cool down in the sun, until it finds an equilibrium (this is why it is not hot in space or, possibly interestingly(!) an inch away from the sun - it is also why 'heat' reaches the earth from the sun without being felt inbetween (to all intents and purposes, there are no molecules in space to be excited by the radiation), but sound doesn't travel at all (it needs molecules to travel through whilst wavelengths of light don't (it's a different type of wave!). PLastic on the inside will only insulate, you need the radiation from the sun to excite molecules in the external plastic and then transfer this...this happens on the outside. Bins get hot inside because of anaerobic bacterial digestion (nothing to do with worms - they just eat the stuff, not make it warm). This heat is nothing to do with radiation, or at the very least, a miniscule amount to do with the fact that the plastic bin particles are getting excited!.

if you're struggling: get the bin somewhere where it gets some sunshine, but not too much, and just chuck stuff in. Charcoal barbecues, wood fires and bonfires are all sources of potash if you want to add it, nitrogen is in the green stuff (or wee!!) and anything organic will rot eventually, so just be patient.......or buy some from one of the sheds! In my experience, compost goes wrong when people worry about it too much, and try too hard. It's not really a science, just natural decomposition in a big pot.

[flounder]

Let's put this earthworm debate to bed.
There's 20-30 types of earthworm found in the UK of which Eisenia are included.
Earthworm is a generic term as opposed to non terrestrial blah, blah, long explanation but you get the picture!

[Mick C]

Interesting stuff Chris, although I had to read the second paragraph several times.

Do you think it's worth adding worms from a fishing tackle shop? I often think that there should be more worms in the compost when I empty it, but just assume that if the bin could support more then they'd make more baby worms (however they do that).

I agree that the process is not complicated, stuff just goes in as it becomes available, However when I used to use plastic bins I just got mostly slime, whereas using bigger bins made from old pallets gives a reasonable compost. It would no doubt be better still if I shredded & turned it.

[Yorkshire Kris]

Also, lining a bin with black plastic is not particularly effective - generally, the temps inside are higher than those outside (except in this weather!) - black plastic may insulate it a bit, but a bin covered in black (or painted) is much better: black doesn't absorb 'heat', it just reflects less radiation which means more 'heat' gets inside (a black bin bag in the shade will not get hot, even if the sun is out); it is effectively absorbing it which is why many tribes wear black in deserts. Heat is an abstract concept - radiation (mainly UVC) moves molecules faster which makes them release energy - partly as heat. radiation only creates 'heat' when it hits a surface which is has less energetic molecules (cold surface) that its wavelength (this is why it is not hot in space or, possibly interestingly(!) an inch away from the sun - it is also why 'heat' reaches the earth from the sun, but sound doesn't). PLastic on the inside will only insulate, you need the radiation from the sun to excite molecules in the plastic and then transfer this...this happens on the outside. Bins get hot inside because of anaerobic bacterial digestion (nothing to do with worms - they just eat the stuff, not make it warm). This heat is nothing to do with radiation, or at the very least, a miniscule amount to do with the fact that the plastic bin particles are getting excited!.

I nominate this as paragraph of the year!

[flounder]

Also, lining a bin with black plastic is not particularly effective - generally, the temps inside are higher than those outside (except in this weather!) - black plastic may insulate it a bit, but a bin covered in black (or painted) is much better: black doesn't absorb 'heat', it just reflects less radiation which means more 'heat' gets inside (a black bin bag in the shade will not get hot, even if the sun is out); it is effectively absorbing it which is why many tribes wear black in deserts. Heat is an abstract concept - radiation (mainly UVC) moves molecules faster which makes them release energy - partly as heat. radiation only creates 'heat' when it hits a surface which is has less energetic molecules (cold surface) that its wavelength (this is why it is not hot in space or, possibly interestingly(!) an inch away from the sun - it is also why 'heat' reaches the earth from the sun, but sound doesn't). PLastic on the inside will only insulate, you need the radiation from the sun to excite molecules in the plastic and then transfer this...this happens on the outside. Bins get hot inside because of anaerobic bacterial digestion (nothing to do with worms - they just eat the stuff, not make it warm). This heat is nothing to do with radiation, or at the very least, a miniscule amount to do with the fact that the plastic bin particles are getting excited!.

I nominate this as paragraph of the year!

holy crappe, I understood it!
I hasten to add anaerobic composting is hard to achieve in a smallish bin, that's where vermicomposting comes into it's own. This, I'm afraid doesn't kill weed seeds so be careful what you add

[Yorkshire Kris]

Also, lining a bin with black plastic is not particularly effective - generally, the temps inside are higher than those outside (except in this weather!) - black plastic may insulate it a bit, but a bin covered in black (or painted) is much better: black doesn't absorb 'heat', it just reflects less radiation which means more 'heat' gets inside (a black bin bag in the shade will not get hot, even if the sun is out); it is effectively absorbing it which is why many tribes wear black in deserts. Heat is an abstract concept - radiation (mainly UVC) moves molecules faster which makes them release energy - partly as heat. radiation only creates 'heat' when it hits a surface which is has less energetic molecules (cold surface) that its wavelength (this is why it is not hot in space or, possibly interestingly(!) an inch away from the sun - it is also why 'heat' reaches the earth from the sun, but sound doesn't). PLastic on the inside will only insulate, you need the radiation from the sun to excite molecules in the plastic and then transfer this...this happens on the outside. Bins get hot inside because of anaerobic bacterial digestion (nothing to do with worms - they just eat the stuff, not make it warm). This heat is nothing to do with radiation, or at the very least, a miniscule amount to do with the fact that the plastic bin particles are getting excited!.

I nominate this as paragraph of the year!

holy crappe, I understood it!
I hasten to add anaerobic composting is hard to achieve in a smallish bin, that's where vermicomposting comes into it's own. This, I'm afraid doesn't kill weed seeds so be careful what you add

I had to read it twice. Good science explained very well.

[Kristen]

not sure how it will effect the earthworms though, as my bins have zillions of them

Your heap is not hot enough ... if you get it up to a good temperature earthworms will retreat into the ground below.

I can't be bothered to spend time getting my heap hot, so I just pile everything and leave it for a year or two. Once you have overcome the initial wait then you get compost at a continuous rate, whatever method you choose. Hot composting has benefits, but is quite a flog. Many years, now, since I last did it ...

If you can get your heap hot enough it will kill weeds and seeds ... maybe / some of. Also any resident diseases on your composted material.

I use my compost, mixed with rotted manure, for one season in the greenhouse cropping borders and by the end of that pretty much anything that wants to germinated has done - and in the hot temperatures inside the greenhouse they generally struggle and are easily dealt with. Not ideal to have weed seed in the compost though (you could avoid putting anything in seed on the heap, but I ain't got time to be that fastidious either - I'm in the country, plenty of weed seed blows in, growing-my-own for yet more doesn't increase the weeding task by much - given that I can't actually prevent having to weed)

You also need air - hence why turning / tumbling should help. If you get the balance right you should be able to get the heap up to 60C - worth getting a long temperature probe and checking what your heap is reaching and then varying what you do to try to reach that target.

Pee on it every day. its amongst the best accelerators available, and free. (Ideally only pee on it when healthy, but I doubt there are pathogens in Pee that you will ever need to worry about.)