Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachycarpus fortunei?

RozDevon
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Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachycarpus fortunei?

Post by RozDevon » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:58 pm

Looking to spend largish amount of dosh on a Trachycarpus for the back garden.
Now, my OH wants the one that has long stems sprouting out of the side of the trunk and leaning out horizontally.
I've an unlabelled Trachycarpus about 2 foot trunk height, it has very stiff leaves vertically and they dont lean out horizontally.
I've been looking at photos everywhere and am still confused as they both look so similar.
Dont want to spend loads of wonga sending away for the wrong one!!!!
The local nurseries dont have any to look at.
The trunks look the same as well. icon_scratch
Could you knowledgable people help to identify the two different types please?


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rburrena
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by rburrena » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:02 pm

From what I have seen waggies have hairier trunks and smaller stiffer, more triangular leaves. Waggies are stouter, they are better in windy spots as the leaves dont get thrashed to bits. Fortunei get taller, have bigger, rounder, floppier leaves. But there is a lot of variation in individuals.

I'm sure someone with more experience than me might correct me/add to this.


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tropical Tom
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by tropical Tom » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:41 pm

I don't know how far away you are from Ottery st Mary, but well worth going to see George if it's not too far!
http://www.thepalmhouse.co.uk/contact.html :D
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Conifers
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by Conifers » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:34 pm

It has smaller leaves and slower growth than most Trachycarpus fortunei. Otherwise, no difference at all. 'Wagnerianus' is just a semi-dwarf cultivar group of Trachycarpus fortunei. So asking "what's the difference" between them is a bit like asking "what's the difference between a Blackface sheep, and sheep in general" — 'Wagnerianus' is contained within the total if C. fortunei variation.


Nigel Fear
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by Nigel Fear » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:44 pm

RozDevon wrote:Looking to spend largish amount of dosh on a Trachycarpus for the back garden.
Now, my OH wants the one that has long stems sprouting out of the side of the trunk and leaning out horizontally.
I've an unlabelled Trachycarpus about 2 foot trunk height, it has very stiff leaves vertically and they dont lean out horizontally.
I've been looking at photos everywhere and am still confused as they both look so similar.
Dont want to spend loads of wonga sending away for the wrong one!!!!
The local nurseries dont have any to look at.
The trunks look the same as well. icon_scratch
Could you knowledgable people help to identify the two different types please?
If you regard them as very similar to your eyes, then go for T.Fortunei, they're more readily available and will cost you less.

Both forms will have stems that arch downwards eventually, if you prefer them not to, prune the older ones back to the horizontal position. However,Waggies' are smaller leaved, and therefore less susceptible to wind.

If you want a less taller palm, go for a Chamaeops instead, that will most probably sucker and have a 'bushier' appearance.


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cordyman
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by cordyman » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:38 pm

Conifers hit the nail on the head, as there is natural variance and trachys have different % mixes of waggy/fortune I think.


Out of the ones I own, my waggys all have super stiff leaves which very rarely bend in the wind, shorter more stout leaves, deeper green, hairier trunks, more of an overall uniform look to them when bottom leaves are kept in situ.

My Fortunes are far wider, quicker growing, leaves tend to flop midway after wind damaged, thicker more dense heads due to so many leaves.


I adore both drunken_smilie1


bordersboy
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by bordersboy » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:39 am

Heinz 57 variety type plant the chusan palm.


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multim
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by multim » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:06 am

I've just braved the drizzle to take these images which will show you the difference. Both Trachycarpus were planted about the same time which shows the slower growth of the Waggy.
Attachments
P1010378.JPG
Waggy on the left
P1010379.JPG
Cham - Humilis - trunked after many years
Growing the improbable - not the impossible


benbaron
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by benbaron » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:30 am

multim wrote:I've just braved the drizzle to take these images which will show you the difference. Both Trachycarpus were planted about the same time which shows the slower growth of the Waggy.
Lovely Cham...I so NEED a large trunked one.


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Nathan
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by Nathan » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:53 pm

Yes if you see them side by side the difference is obvious. T. wagnerianus is better for a windy spot too as the leaves are not just smaller, but much stiffer...
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RozDevon
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by RozDevon » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:33 pm

Wow! Thanks so much for your help!
Thats so helpful to look at the two side by side, we have agreed that the waggy is the one for us, we like the shape of the leaves, and as its quite windy here I think its the better choice.
I've made comparisons with all the websites given on here, hours of fun! :happy:
Making a short list now and narrowing it down as I want a butia capitata as well, so will try and get them both from the same place.
What a wonderful summery day here today. icon_sunny Have power washed the decking and the terracotta (supposed to be!!) paving , so much green algae grows in the winter. Looking a bit like Spring, great. Planting bulbs and planning the new site for the new arrivals!! BIG holes to be dug!! Who needs to go to the gym when you do gardening? icon_cheers


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redsquirrel
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by redsquirrel » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:23 am

i would definately give george a ring roz,he will have waggies but might have a butia tucked away somewhere too.
incase you dont have it, george website and details icon_thumleft
http://www.thepalmhouse.co.uk/
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RozDevon
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by RozDevon » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:32 pm

Thanks Redsquirrel, I'm going to ring George tomorrow. He has a good price on waggies at the moment.
I'll mention your "name"!


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cordyman
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by cordyman » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:34 pm

RozDevon wrote:Thanks Redsquirrel, I'm going to ring George tomorrow. He has a good price on waggies at the moment.
I'll mention your "name"!

Roz check out my two Palmhouse waggys, very impressed, and after all these gales the leaves are all still stiff and proper icon_salut

http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk/forum/v ... 2&start=75


phatplants
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Re: Difference between Trachycarpus wagnerianus and Trachyca

Post by phatplants » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:28 pm

What were/are the trunk heights on your Waggies Cordy?


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