Your local Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's

[Axel]

Hi everyone,

I am envious at your UK wide Phoenix canariensis_CIDP experiment. By that i mean that i understand that your local DYI stores sold them by the thousands so now you have the possibility to see what they can handle in terms of cold/wind/rain. Here, in the Netherlands there are hardly any planted out Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's. I have 2 of which i will post some pics later (together with some pics from my courtyard). But i have found an interesting large Phoenix canariensis_CIDP (in front of a palmwholesaler) that i have been watching over the course of the year. It's planted in a big box and had it's first winter in 2007/2008. You can see the result after an incidental -7/-8C and loads of -2/-4C. The leaves are completely brown, but luckily it didnt die, it's slowly recovering.

Do you have any nice pics of local Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's big or small? As i understand in some parts of the UK you see them popping up in frontgardens in nearly every street.

Axel

[Axel]

And this is, i understand, the oldest Phoenix canariensis_CIDP in the Netherlands. According to the story on a dutch forum it's 35 years old and has been through some tuff winters with protection. I haven't seen it myself though. I must say it's not really big for 35 years, but other than that it looks good and i would love to have it.

[stephenprudence]

Unfortunately it's anything but a UK wide initiative. 90% of the Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's planting in public are in the southern coastal area of the UK. There are some at Southport on the northwest coast of UK but that is it really, it's a very southern biased country the UK. Northern places don't exist just ask the government.

[Gaz]

Hi Axel,

You are correct that the DIY sheds have sold thousands of small CIDPs, I understood these were sold countrywide although maybe as Stephen suggests these were only sold in more southernly places.

Loads of them were very small and the majority will have died the first winter.

However some bigger ones were sold, and some (even the small ones) were planted with good conditions. Certainly there are many in front gardens round my way. Typical low for last few years is about -6, but usually only for 2 or 3 nights.

My Neighbours have a pair either side of their drive and the yare sizing up quite well - however to get the cars onto the driveway they prune the CIPD's to give the 'pineapple' look. The palms are both planted in clay and i would imagine not much in the way of enhancement was made to the soil. They are south facing and they have paving all around them - this probably helps act as a heat store for some of the colder nights, and may help prevent roots from freezing as there will be a layer of sand below the concrete blocks.

The various palms planted in peoples gardens will give an interesting look to the typical British town-scape as (and if) they mature.

Incidentally Trachys and Chaemerops were also sold by the thousand so we shall see these maturing all over the place too.

[stephenprudence]

my mistake I thought you were referring to public planting, aka in parklands, and on the streets etc.

Gaz is right they're sold by the thousands, even quite a few big ones too. they're definitely more popular than Trachys, probably because of their conotations with mediterranean sea side holidays. Here, and everywhere else (apart from the inland, cold areas) grow lots of Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's, unfortunately though joe bloggs buys one and thinks:

1) it wont survive in this country
2) they are some kind of annual?
3) dont realise their root system requires more than what is given.

In conclusion some people probably dont know what they are when they buy them that small, and probably assume they will stay small.

[Axel]

Hi Stephen,

i actually referred to Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's bought in supermarkets and planted by individuals. If you look at it from a distance (from the Netherlands ), it's actually a nice, almost scientific, grandscale experiment. In a couple of years we may be able to see where the borders for Phoenix canariensis_CIDP survival are, whichones died, whichones thrived and are becoming huge. The thing that makes this experiment different from the typical exotic gardening as we all do is that these thousands of Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's are planted largely by individuals without specific knowledge about soil, positioning, care etc. and the good thing is, they don't protect. So in my opinion a lot of valuable information in the future.

[Axel]

oops sorry Stephen, i only noticed your last post after posting my reply

[Nathan]

Axel,

C.I.D.P's are very commonly planted round here, even before the DIY superstores started selling them by the thousand, I guess some were inspired by the ones planted near the seafront. Unfortunately many of them have been planted in stupid locations and have grown very large in a short time & as a result loads have been removed from front gardens. There are still however plenty of nice ones about & hopefully these wont be removed...

Stephen re your comment about most C.I.D.P's being planted by councils on the south coast, well it's only really down here that they could be considered even remotely hardy, I'm sure most northern areas would be too cold in the long term for a C.I.D.P to reach maturity (despite the recent run of mild winters), the fact remains that the only place on the UK mainland where a mature C.I.D.P exists is in Torquay, don't forget that south coast areas have never got that cold (the absolute minimum temperature ever recorded in Plymouth is just -8C & Southsea & Bognor Regis have only ever got as low as -9C). We do not know for certain if this run of mild winters will continue as our climate is so changable, hopefully it will & those C.I.D.P's planted in more northern areas will survive & reach mature proportions, but it has nothing to do with politics & the government being "south biased", simply that the climate in more northern locations is not as suitable for growing many palms...

Rant over...

[Andy Martin]

I've got two types of Phoenix canariensis_CIDP.... one when I wake up in the morning.... Chronic Inflammatory Dymylelinating Polyneuropathy and the other a Canary Island Date Palm which I bought from a DIY shop ( Homebase) because it survived the Winter unharmed only to find the new spear go brown and pull in the spring time It,s taken all summer for piddly new growth to appear, so it's staying in the greenhouse all Winter
Yes you learn the hard way , they're not root hardy.

[stephenprudence]

Nathan, inland northern/eastern areas definitely no chance, but I can ear mark many northern coastal counties that would be suitable for a Phoenix canariensis_CIDP. Southport coast has proved they can be grown to maturity, and many mature specimens here on Wirral (10 foot tall in some cases) are growing well and the North Wales coast are blind not to take advantage of the balmy climate there (although it is preference I guess). I think the sun helps and as such definitely here in the north the sun is much weaker and therefore of little benefit.

Even in the Mediterranean most Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's are planted on the coast, so I think widespread areas in Britain (and Scotland) should attempt this.

Here also -8C is the record temperature since recording began (back in 1910, at the A540 weather recording site, Thurstaston/Heswall)

[Axel]

Stephen, any chance of a picture of that 10 foot specimen?

[Guy]

Walking back to work today at lunchtime I passed a gentrified factory with little gardens for the flats. they've had a Phoenix canariensis_CIDP in a beautiful designer pot all summer. Its grown well but is now standing in 6 inches of water. That's not below the pot, but in the pot and it clearly has no drainage holes. Must have cost them 40 quid from a shed and same again for the pot. Almost a crime. Or perhaps like the aquatic Agaves in a previous post, it will make it through the winter. Still suppose it's part of the experiment.

[stephenprudence]

Definitely but I'll have to take a photo of it, the reason I havent up to now, is that it is on a busy main street and I find taking photos in those circumstances rather embarrassing, however I'll take one and post on here asap.

[Axel]

Walking back to work today at lunchtime I passed a gentrified factory with little gardens for the flats. they've had a Phoenix canariensis_CIDP in a beautiful designer pot all summer. Its grown well but is now standing in 6 inches of water. That's not below the pot, but in the pot and it clearly has no drainage holes. Must have cost them 40 quid from a shed and same again for the pot. Almost a crime. Or perhaps like the aquatic Agaves in a previous post, it will make it through the winter. Still suppose it's part of the experiment.

This is exactly what happened to a potted Phoenix canariensis_CIDP that i had in front of my house. It had been grown inside for a couple of years and looked awful. So i put it outside and didnt care anymore. It didnt have drainage holes so has been standing for months in murky water during last winter and a layer of ice on top during the coldest periods (at least for 14 days). Well, it lost its spear and after i cut off the top, it has regrown a couple of small pale leaves. I am absolutely amazed..I will post a pic later.

[JonK]

The council in Norwich have planted several around the city over the last few years mainly on roundabouts and traffic islands. The oldest outside John Lewis in the city centre has been in the ground for over 10 year now. It was a very small plant at first as it was planted just as summer bedding. It was left planted and has survived. It is a very healthy looking plant and is now up to approx 8-10ft with a good sized base. We normally get -5°c in the city most winters but I think it could be a bit more sheltered where this plant is located. Other Phoenix canariensis_CIDP have been planted in other locations round the city in the last few years but have not really got going yet. Once planted they never get watered or fed so they have to fend for themselves.