C.Humilis...how hardy?

[Tom2006]

My local place has lots of large humilis. I was listening to a member of staff advise a customer. He said humilis is the hardiest palm!? Is this right?

[bev]

Definately not, trachys are our best bet in the u.k.

Cheers

Lee

[Tom2006]

I thought as much. It's bizarre because I heard the lady specifically ask which palm is the most hardy. She was surrounded by trachies and humilis. Shows how bad advice could prove very costly.

[Trudytropics]

Chammys might not be the hardiest, however I can say the 1m tall one I planted last year laughed in the face of winter I paid no particular attention to this palm, it was before I found this forum and really did'nt know what I was doing We had a tough winter in Newcastle like everyone else and this chammy was either frozen or covered in a deep blanket of snow for weeks on end, it suffered no damage whatsoever. It is a happy specimen and I hope it makes it through subsequent winters . I would'nt like to say it would be the same for every chammy in different parts of the country but it is a pretty good indicator of their hardiness

[Dave Brown]

Tom, when I first came across Chamaerops humilis, in the early 1990s it was stated as 'hardy' from Hampshire SW wards, although they had some success in Sussex near the coast.

The problem back then was most were small palms and that hardiness rating was about right for the time. Then, in the global warming years it proved to be hardy over much of the country, and as usual if is survived once against a south facing wall wholesalers and retailers labeled 'Hardy'. As the global warming years have stalled particularly in recent winters around the world, this can no longer be planted as 'reliably hardy'.

When I bought mine back in 1994 is was rated as 'hardy to-10C', so I was cautious about where I planted it, particularly as I had -13C in Jan 1987. My plan was to throw fleece over it if anywhere near -10C was forecast. It never was, so I have never fleeced mine.

Even last winter the forecast was for -7C, but we actually got -10C for the first time since 1987 and the first time since planting. The Chamearops is now a mature size at 7 feet tall, with a 4 foot clear trunk. Fortunately most of the leaves were covered in snow, as I don't knock it off, and only yhe leaflets were damaged. I'm sure if I had knocked all the snow off I would have been looking at near total defoliation.

My rating for this palm is
Exposed position, mature size (forming a distinct trunk)
-8C no damage
-10C leaf burn
below that could be looking at totally killed.

I know there will be someone that comes back and says, "well, mine survived -12C/-14C/-16C " etc, but you would need to look very carefully at their exposure, as if it did survive those ambient temps, it was sheltered in some way

[JoelR]

I've been watching my Chammy and hoping for regrowth from below ground but there is no sign of life after temps got down to -13.5C for me during the 2 weeek long deep freeze. It had a wigwam of canes wrapped with a double layer of fleece which should have kept the snow and some cold off - maybe this is where i went wrong. I'd had the palm about 8 years and it was bought at a decent size for £35. Similar originally to the ones DIY sheds & GC's are selling this year for £50-£65. It was untouched the previous winter when my recorded lowest temp was -10C.

I think if it was better protected/bigger/more established (it had been planted out 2 years earlier) it might have survived. I'll certainly keep trying with chammies. Got 2 small but older than they look (grown hard) var. cerifera and a regular humilis as replacements as well as a couple of vulcano seedlings and more cerifera seedlings. If at first you don't succeed....

[GoggleboxUK]

That's the spirit Joel

I believe Cerifera are reputedly a little hardier than regular humilis too.

Just a suggestion but if we do get heavy snowfall and another long freeze this winter you might try coving the wigwam with snow to create a makeshift igloo.

This keeps the temperature inside the igloo much higher, completely cuts out the wind chill damage and generally gives plants a better chance of survival.

[medjool]

C.humilis Cerifera here was my only surviving palms this winter and took -18c,Waggies Died x7,The one big benifit with Cerifera is if you loose the central trunk as i did they come back from the base as suckers!I would also suggest with another cold winter possibly coming pile bark around the base of the trunk and you will definitely have better regrowth!Mine were totally unprotected this winter next year a pile of bark will be utilised!

[fieldfest]

Fortunately most of the leaves were covered in snow, as I don't knock it off, and only yhe leaflets were damaged. I'm sure if I had knocked all the snow off I would have been looking at near total defoliation.

is snow on leaves good then? i knock it off all my plants

[medjool]

Yes snow is good on the leaves a good insulater but in Ryde you must have a good mild climate minimum temp ?

[Dave Brown]

C.humilis Cerifera here was my only surviving palms this winter and took -18c,Waggies Died x7,The one big benifit with Cerifera is if you loose the central trunk as i did they come back from the base as suckers!I would also suggest with another cold winter possibly coming pile bark around the base of the trunk and you will definitely have better regrowth!Mine were totally unprotected this winter next year a pile of bark will be utilised!

Sorry medjool, I have to take issue with your post.

So you are claiming that Chamearops humilis v cerifera is hardier than Trachycarpus fortunei Would you care to underwrite that and refund anyone that loses one to less than -18C, having planted it out on your say so? It is posts like this that are quoted by retailers to give themselves a clear conscience

If you are saying that they are hardy as they come back from ground level and reach 6 inches tall by the end of the next season, I don't think that is what most people want.

[Tom2006]

Thanks for all the info. Very useful. George at the palm house says not to allow snow to accumulate on trachys so I'll be building some form of shelter. I know what your saying Dave but I'd sooner have a living 6" plant than a dead one.

[medjool]

Dave just a factual post with my experience,my dead waggys and other trachycarpus some 5 to 6ft are dead stumps,my Cerifera is still growing enough said!

[medjool]

Dave they didnt believe Darwin in the 1800s and he was afraid to make public his findings,if we dont post honestly on here whats the point,my Waggies had -25c on the label it didnt help them through this winter!

[Tom2006]

Did you protect your trachies Medjool? Sorry to hear you lost them.