C.Humilis...how hardy?

[Dim]

I found this link which indicates cold hardiness of some palms grown in the UK....

as I understand, the hardiest palm for the UK according to the list is the Rhapidophyllum hystrix ... hardy to -14.9 degrees C ...

the Sabal Minor is a bit more cold hardy (-15.3 degrees C, but needs to be planted in an understorey environment (whatever that means?)

the C. Humilis is ranked 27th according to the list, and is hardy up to -8.8 degrees C ... the Chamaerops humilis 'cerifera' may be slightly hardier

the Trachycarpus fortunei is hardy up to -11.9 degrees C and is rated at number 10 on the list

here is the link (makes for interesting reading):
http://www.trebrown.com/documents/clima ... trials.php

and found this site (wholesaler who deals with palms, based Holland)

according to this site, the Trachycarpus Naini Tal is hardier than the Trachycarpus fortunei (needs protection if colder than -13 degrees C, ... and they also say the C. Humilis needs protection if colder than -13 degrees C ....

so, who do you believe, as according to this info, the C.Humils is as hardy as the Fortunei?

some interesting palms on there:

http://gardenpalms.com/EN/RETAIL/Assortment.aspx

[Conifers]

the Trachycarpus fortunei is hardy up to -11.9 degrees C and is rated at number 10 on the list

There's mature T. fortunei in Northumbs that have survived much lower temperatures than that. And some in Bulgaria have survived several occasions with below -20°C, including -27.5°C on 6 Jan 1993.

It is pretty obvious from the widespread survival of T. fortunei across Britain, and the absence of any mature Rhapidophyllum hystrix or Sabal minor anywhere in Britain, that T. fortunei is the clear winner of the Hardiest Palm in Britain stakes.

[Dim]

the Trachycarpus fortunei is hardy up to -11.9 degrees C and is rated at number 10 on the list

There's mature T. fortunei in Northumbs that have survived much lower temperatures than that. And some in Bulgaria have survived several occasions with below -20°C, including -27.5°C on 6 Jan 1993.

It is pretty obvious from the widespread survival of T. fortunei across Britain, and the absence of any mature Rhapidophyllum hystrix or Sabal minor anywhere in Britain, that T. fortunei is the clear winner of the Hardiest Palm in Britain stakes.

I have planted several fortunei, and all have done fine (so far)... some were planted 3 yrs ago and had no protection except for a thick manure mulch in late autumn) ....

a few weeks back, I planted 2 humilis in a small garden .... these are the 1st humilis I have planted both are approx 1m high....

if they don't survive this winter, I will replace them with fortunei in spring and will pay out of my own pocket, but in future will stick to fortunei and will not bother with humilis again

I will give them a good mulch in autumn .... client asked for 'hardy' plants .... if I wrap them up for winter he will ask why I choose those .... could be an expensive mistake (£70 for both delivered), .... but a lesson learned

[multim]

I have had a Chamearops Humilis planted out for many years, and over those years it has grown very well until the Winter of 2010 when, in my garden, the temperature fell to -11.2c. The exposed suckering growth died including one trunk of about tree feet. The main trunk is almost five feet tall and recovered. Last Winter, the temperature dipped to -10.6c. I have not given the plant any protection in previous Winters but on this occasion the palm was covered in fleece.
Fortunately the cold didn't persist and as a result it has flowered and growing well.
I did have some smaller C. Humilis in other parts of the garden, all were damaged by the cold and did not recover.
The T. Wagnerianus, T. Fortuneii, and Chamearops H. Cerifera were undamaged with no protection.
The temperatures were recorded via my Davis Weather Station.

[billdango]

There a many C Humilis plants in Southampton inc those in my own garden.

None were lost during the last 3 winters but a few had leaf scorch.

The coldest we had in the last 3 winters was on one or two nights only so we didn't suffer as bad as the rest of the UK.

The lowest temps in Southampton City center as shown below.

Year 2009..........7.3c
Year 2010..........6.9c
Year 2011..........7.5c
Year 2012..........6.0c

rgds billdango

P S as I live further out from the City Center some of my night minima were a little lower then those shown above but none of my C Humilis were damaged in any way.

[Rovert56]

C.humilis Cerifera here was my only surviving palms this winter and took -18c,Waggies Died x7,The one big benifit with Cerifera is if you loose the central trunk as i did they come back from the base as suckers!I would also suggest with another cold winter possibly coming pile bark around the base of the trunk and you will definitely have better regrowth!Mine were totally unprotected this winter next year a pile of bark will be utilised!

Sorry medjool, I have to take issue with your post.

So you are claiming that Chamearops humilis v cerifera is hardier than Trachycarpus fortunei Would you care to underwrite that and refund anyone that loses one to less than -18C, having planted it out on your say so? It is posts like this that are quoted by retailers to give themselves a clear conscience

If you are saying that they are hardy as they come back from ground level and reach 6 inches tall by the end of the next season, I don't think that is what most people want.

I couldnt agree more, the question we should be asking ourselves is how many palms do we see growing wild in our countryside or where ever in the british isles. We only see cultivated plants in our gardens or botanicale gardens such as Key ect. Palms when young regardles of their species are very suseptable to frost damage and death, they will always need protection. I have a chamerops in my garden that has lost its center trunk to winter on slaughts I now protect it with its own mini green house during the winter months. I think this also keeps the stems dry, if wet that moister can freeze and it is that which kills the softer developing spears. . The middle trunk of mine is 19 inches to the bottom of the petoiles. As you can see from the picture --- I hope it has down loaded --- if not how do I down load pictures --please --

at last I hope, my Chamerops humilis showing winter damage!

[GoggleboxUK]

I couldnt agree more, the question we should be asking ourselves is how many palms do we see growing wild in our countryside or where ever in the british isles. We only see cultivated plants in our gardens or botanicale gardens

The same could have been said of Rhodedendrons or Japanese Knotweed 100 years ago though. Certain parts of the British Isles support self-seeded palms. Dave's garden can be cited as an example of this.

I do agree that -18 seems highly unlikely for a Cerifera but, under optimum conditions, who knows? Palm growing has only become widespread very recently in the UK and there is probably only about 30-40 years worth of experience to be drawn upon, even less scientifically recorded data collected under optimum condotions.

I personally suffered -19c in winter 2010 and had a Humilis survive. Now I'm not saying it was -19c in the exact spot where it was planted because it almost definitely wasn't but it serves as a good example of how people can be convinced that palms are hardier than they actually are. The BBC website recorded -19 in Preston, I live in Preston, I had a Chammy planted out, it didn't die therefore I could claim with absolute belief that my Chammy survived -19.

Total noob error but you get the point, yes?

[greendragon]

I have cerifera and the standard one. This will be the first winter and I'm just gonna put a shelter over them to keep them dry from November to March. I will water them myself once each month during a frost free period.

[Rovert56]

I couldnt agree more, the question we should be asking ourselves is how many palms do we see growing wild in our countryside or where ever in the british isles. We only see cultivated plants in our gardens or botanicale gardens

The same could have been said of Rhodedendrons or Japanese Knotweed 100 years ago though. Certain parts of the British Isles support self-seeded palms. Dave's garden can be cited as an example of this.

True, time will tell wether we see them away from the garden enviroment, do you know of anywere they are growing in the wilds of the british countryside. Perhaps a seed transported there having past through the gut of a bird. It would be interesting to see if a trachie apears on the land scape, no doute then the enviromentalist will have a field day condeming us all for introducing them into our gardens. its a time bomb waiting to explode

[GoggleboxUK]

I don't know of any palms growing wild but it's unlikely to happen here in the North. I know of a couple of nurseries in Hampshire that field grow reasonably large palms and it definitely wouldn't surprise me if there are areas local to those fields where seedlings are springing up again after the winter of 2010.

Wouldn't it be a better Britain if hybridised, hardier palms were to start cropping up along motorway verges and in the depths of woodlands everywhere.

[Rovert56]

I was thinking along similar lines regards motorway verges, Reading borough council are using Trachiecarpus fortunei alot in their town landscaping. We have a duel carrageway called the IDR (inner distribution road) part of which is planted in the central reservation with a line of these trachies. Companies in Reading are also decorating their forcourts in the same way. Its all begining to look very Mediterainian.
I am now consiouse that we have moved away from the discusion on Chamerops humilis hardyness!

[Palm Grove]

Living in Leeds, W Yorkshire we do get some very cold nights during the winter but both my Trachycarpus(10 ft tall) & my C.Humilis(2 ft tall with 6 suckers) both survived untouched without any protection, even down to -12 which we had on a few successive nights during 2010-2011 winter!

The truth is because palms originate from warmer climes, growing in the uk they are living on the edge & some of the survival success is down to the individual plant itself. Of course location is the most important thing you can do as excessive winter wet is the real killer, so well drained soil in a sheltered position and full sun.... it should thrive!

So in my experience definately give C. Humilis a go its a real beautiful, tough palm

[Steve May]

Today after all the rain we've had in recent weeks and months I noticed that my C.Humilis has fallen right over on its side and the short fat trunk is now only a few centimetres off the ground. It seems undamaged, and it is now leaning on a large pot to keep it from falling further. I noticed that it narrows at the base of the trunk, which might be why it has fallen over. Thinking about using a few stakes to hold it straight and maybe mound up the earth around the base.

Just wondered if the sodden ground might be to blame (soil has lots of clay), or maybe I never planted it deep enough in the first place. Anyone else had this problem?

[jungle jas]

According to recent weather forecasts you may well find out how hardy they are very shortly.

[JBALLY]

It does not sound very promising for the plants survival with a probably very wet winter coming up. It sounds like it has not rooted properly and the combination of alot of rain and recent strong winds have made it lean. A picture would be very helpful for a full diagnosis but if it was mine I would carefully lift and pot up and place it undercover in my greenhouse or garage. (In answer to Steves question )