Trachycarpus fortunei trim 2009

[Dave Brown]

My Trachycarpus go through phases where I leave the leaves on and the palm becomes more lollipop shaped, which I like, however I cringe at the yellowing bottom 50% of the leaves in the crown. So every second or third year I can't stand it any longer and the Trachycarpus trimming season starts.

I last trimmed my Trudi Trachycarpus in 2007 but since that time we have had such strong winds it has become a bit of a mess and the half way leaves, nowhere near a lollipop shape yet, became broken ans desicated so they have had to come off.

Here is was before starting. This is not an underexposed pic it really was that dull at nearly 11am. We had lights on inside

Here after removing 18 leaves..... still an incredibly dull day

Removing the old tatty wind broken leaves revealed what I had suspected, that the old leaves had much longer petioles, about 1ft (30cm) longer The only thing I can put it down to is the last two summers have really been non-descript temp wise where as the few summers before were nicely warm to hot. Maybe the petioles are longer in hotter weather. Anyone got any other ideas

Having removed the lower leaves revealed this year's crop of Trachycarpus seed. We have had more than 30,000 in the past. Sorry about the lightling the day was so dull the flash was required.

[stephenprudence]

Fantastic stuff Dave, love the habit that it has especially with the trunk stripped. The way the fronds are cut at the top making it look more exotic. It'll be at least 30 years before mine reaches anywhere near that size. There is loads of fruit as well on that! When do start producing fruit? I would imagine when they're about 5 feet high or so (in trunk)?

[Doug-Tews]

Dave, that's a nice looking Trachycarpus!... and your experiences bring up several matters regarding Trachycarpus's that I've wondered about for years.

Back when I lived in south Florida, I seldom saw any Trachycarpus's. (Why bother when one could grow coconuts plus a hundred other species?) However, many could be seen in colder north Florida and elsewhere in the southeastern US. Back in those days, I hated them. Without exception, every one I ever saw was ratty, tattery looking and just downright ugly.

However, on a visit to Seattle, my view of these palms suddenly changed. I was in a public park when I spotted a trio of 20 foot tall Trachycarpus's that took my breath away. They had beautiful, full, round heads of gorgeous, luxuriant dark green fronds without a speck of brown anywhere. Even the lowest fronds drooping down close to the trunk had no brown... not even a trace of the tattered look I was so familiar with. I was thunderstruck and realized I had misjudged the potential of these palms.

In a subsequent visit to Virginia Beach, I also discovered a couple attractive specimens, but they were all quite small in protected areas.

Fast forward to the Isle of Wight: After moving here, I again was greeted by the nasty, brown, tattered looking specimens. Even the Trachycarpus's at the Ventnor Botanical Gardens were not especially attractive. However, during subsequent walks through the undercliff area, I did discover a few beautiful specimens. In every instance, they were fairly protected from the wind.

Now at this point, I'm sure many would chime in and say, "Trachycarpus's don't like a lot of wind." That may be true, but the gorgeous ones I saw in Seattle were actually quite exposed, so wind is not the only answer. After many observations, I've come up with several factors that undoubtedly affect their appearance:

1) Excessive wind exposure
2) Desiccation during cold (and windy) spells
3) Soil deficiency issues
4) Perhaps most important: How well fed and watered they are.

I'm convinced that how well these palms are fed is the most overlooked factor in their appearance. I've heard several accounts that even in cool climates, a really well fed Trachycarpus (especially planted in a well prepared hole) can actually grow a foot of trunk per year. Than means the entire head of fronds would be replaced every growing season...maybe even more in a good season.

Many people don't realize that most palms are, in fact, heavy feeders. Many will do OK without.... but so much better with lots of food. (Palms are especially fond of organic fertilizers.) In Florida, with it's extended growing season, it's recommended to feed palms 3-4 times a year.

I'm certain most of the tattery Trachycarpus's I've seen look that way because the fronds are only very slowly being replaced and subjected to the stress of multiple winters. Not only would rapid frond replacement help their appearance, but healthy, vigorous fonds are always going to look better even when subjected to adverse conditions.

I think part of the problem is the soil in much of the UK is actually pretty reasonable. People are used to throwing something in the ground and it grows. Because of this, many may not realize just how beneficial additional soil augmentation can be and don't bother. (Farmers are certainly aware of this.) And I'm sure many in this forum are also aware of these matters, that's why their gardens look so much better than many public parks!

However, when it comes to palms, some may not realize just how hungry these things can be...and how well they will respond when regularly fed.

Well, sorry to beat this to death, but after growing palms for over 30 years in Florida with its horrible, impoverished soil, I'm acutely aware of this issue and have seen firsthand what a dramatic difference regular feeding can make to a palm.

So far, I've only seen Adrian's garden (impressive!) but am still looking forward to seeing other members' gardens as well and what they are accomplishing with palms and other exotic plants.

Doug

[themes]

I like the new shape looks tidier

[becky]

looks loads better bet it took some work to give that a trim,looks so high , and so many seeds , bet that took hours , looks lovelly though now dave

[kentgardener]

Many people don't realize that most palms are, in fact, heavy feeders.

Hi Doug

A lot of interesting observations - but I thought I should fire off a quick post of my limited observations. It could be that palms need certain foods which I haven't worked out yet - two years ago I gave mine loads of 'miracle grow, baby bio and tomorite' - I ended up with all of them being really badly marked by ugly brown/black spots on their fronds. I was worried it was virus - but after holding off on the food for 2 years they are all starting to look a LOT happier.

I am not sure if palms maybe like particular nutrients - but from my Kent experience they were not too keen on what I fed them - and I am now being cautious of overfeeding them.

Just my personal observations - but hopeful should open a lively discusion.

Cheer all

John

[Robin Cassell]

The palm looks FANTASTIC to me...thats what I want..the pROPER tropic look..havnt mastered the trunk stripping thing yet but thinner trunks the better ..only my opinion ..as for feeding ..bags of horse s**t seem to keep em happy here..well thats all ive ever put on everything in the garden and it seems to love it ....just straight on..no rotting or mixing...lazy but effective

[Adrian]

Good job there Dave, all nice and tidy for a year or two.
Cant believe its been so dull down your way, got a tad of sunburn today in the garden and later at the footie.

[Doug-Tews]

I gave mine loads of 'miracle grow, baby bio and tomorite' - I ended up with all of them being really badly marked by ugly brown/black spots on their fronds.

Hmmm...I'm not sure what you mean by "baby bio and tomorite", however, Miracle Grow might be problematic in some circumstances. Although many palms are heavy feeders, they're not hungry in the same way as aroids, for example. Too much nitrogen might be a problem, especially if the soil is not really well drained. From the experience of many in Florida, they seem to prefer multiple feedings of gentler, organic fertilizers, rather than being occasionally zapped with doses of high potency chemical fertilizers. Drainage might be an issue too. If the soil is pretty dense and slow to drain, chemical salts might have a tendency to accumulate, which could produce some of the very effects you described.

[SteveP]

Hi Dave,

Hope you don't mind but I've edited your second photo to show the crown in better detail. (Photoshop has an excellent tool for highlighting shadow areas without making the overall picture, particularly in this case the background, any brighter)

Good observation about the shorter length of the petioles on the newer leaves. I think your theory about hot weather could be right but also there might be less water in hot summers. Theres a couple of very tall Trachycarpus's in the Bromley area which I've noticed also have a dense and compact crown. Maybe when they get to a certain size the plants simply don't have the energy to grow with the same vigour and produce large leaves and long petioles. Just a theory

Still a fantastic Trachycarpus though.

Cheers
Steve

[Las Palmas Norte]

Back when I lived in south Florida, I seldom saw any Trachycarpus's. (Why bother when one could grow coconuts plus a hundred other species?) However, many could be seen in colder north Florida and elsewhere in the southeastern US. Back in those days, I hated them. Without exception, every one I ever saw was ratty, tattery looking and just downright ugly.

However, on a visit to Seattle, my view of these palms suddenly changed. I was in a public park when I spotted a trio of 20 foot tall Trachycarpus's that took my breath away. They had beautiful, full, round heads of gorgeous, luxuriant dark green fronds without a speck of brown anywhere. Even the lowest fronds drooping down close to the trunk had no brown... not even a trace of the tattered look I was so familiar with. I was thunderstruck and realized I had misjudged the potential of these palms.

Trachycarpus are out of range in Florida to grow to their full potential. These need a cooler climate to look their best.

Cheers, Barrie.

[Dave Brown]

Thanks for the replies.

Doug, I'm on heavy clay above Chalk, so plagued by cold, wet soil in winter and parched, cracked, too well drained soil in summer. This heavy soil holds fertilizer and I have attributed the yellowing leaves to overfeeding in the past. The one I have never fed had green leaves almost to the ground when about 15 feet tall, but smaller leaves less prone to wind damage. So is it feed, wind, or just plain variation

[Doug-Tews]

Thanks for the replies.

Doug, I'm on heavy clay above Chalk, so plagued by cold, wet soil in winter and parched, cracked, too well drained soil in summer. This heavy soil holds fertilizer and I have attributed the yellowing leaves to overfeeding in the past. The one I have never fed had green leaves almost to the ground when about 15 feet tall, but smaller leaves less prone to wind damage. So is it feed, wind, or just plain variation

Wow...heavy clay on chalk sounds like a challenge indeed. Feed, wind or just variation? I sure wish there was a definitive answer! All else aside, with the exception of that gorgeous trio I saw in Seattle, every other nice looking Trachycarpus I've ever seen was very protected from the wind...so that has to be a significant factor.

Feed alone doesn't tell the whole story either. Some palms are very sensitive to a lack of micronutrients. This was a severe problem in south Florida. Many Syagrus look ghastly...thin, frizzled, burned fronds. Date palms are somewhat susceptible to this as well, but don't show it quite as bad as the Syagrus. When I'm back in Florida in a few weeks I'm going to take some pictures of this. You guys won't believe how bad some of these are. Really nice, luxuriant Syagrus are not very common.

A friend of mine had several in front of their house that looked so horrible they were going to cut them down. Instead, I persuaded them to try my magic elixer....equal parts of iron sulfate, manganese sulfate, and magnesium sulfate. These were generously sprinkled around the root area at several month intervals. Even without fertilizer, after a few months the palms started pushing out beautiful dark green, luxuriant fronds. My friends were astonished at the difference...and the palms were spared!

If you're afraid of excessive fertilizer retention, I'd suggest going the all organic route and feeding them several times a year with stuff like rotted manure. On top of this a light treatment of micronutrients as mentioned above should make any palm quite happy. By the way, at least in Florida, date palms exhibiting a lot of tip burn are usually cured by the addition of micronutrients as well.

[col]

Many people don't realize that most palms are, in fact, heavy feeders.

Hi Doug
A lot of interesting observations - but I thought I should fire off a quick post of my limited observations. It could be that palms need certain foods which I haven't worked out yet - two years ago I gave mine loads of 'miracle grow, baby bio and tomorite' - I ended up with all of them being really badly marked by ugly brown/black spots on their fronds. I was worried it was virus - but after holding off on the food for 2 years they are all starting to look a LOT happier.
I am not sure if palms maybe like particular nutrients - but from my Kent experience they were not too keen on what I fed them - and I am now being cautious of overfeeding them.
Just my personal observations - but hopeful should open a lively discusion.
Cheers all John

Thanks, John. It is quite timely that I read all this feed/don't feed talk as I have a garden that is only 1 year old and have 6 Trachies planted out in various places. I was about to start feeding them on a regular basis with Micracle Gro, but after reading this discussion I think I'll stop dead in my tracks. With plants generally, I am usually of the 'plant it and leave it to nature' school of thought. Here in this part of Lincolnshire we are lucky to have the rich, black, 'Warp' soil right under our feet, so I wouldn't have thought we lacked sufficient nutrients. I think for the moment, the best and safest thing I could do with my Trachies is to just water them with nothing other than what comes out of the tap...

col

[Arlon Tishmarsh]

I bought a 2m trunked Trachycarpus from Simon at Amulree at the end of last year and when delivered by the driver, who apparently has been with Simon from day one, he was telling me about his collection of palms some of which were big specimens and told me he gave his palms nothing but Miracle Gro. Maybe every situation has to be taken under its own merits, personaly i don't believe that one formula / feed will suit every Trachycarpus in different situ's throught the country and you have to find what best suits your situation.