Blue leaved palms (subsequently botanic naming rules)

[radio1julie]

I have wondered many times if it is possible to coax some of the blue leaved palms, i.e. Brahea Armata, Chamaerops Cerifera, Butias etc into changing the blueness of their leaves by adding certain substances to the soil? I am thinking in terms of Hydrangeas, where blue flowers indicate acid soil and pink flowers indicate alkaline (think I’ve got that the right way round?). Maybe this kind of effect is only possible with flowers? Maybe its possible with stems/leaves? Has this ever been discussed/considered?

I am asking this because there seems to be so much colour variation between plants of the same species. I wonder if, in their native habitat, all plants would tend to be the same shade of blue when growing in the same area and hence same soil type? If that’s the case, this warrants consideration. We would all like these palms to be at their bluest, I’m sure!

[countrylover]

Julie it usually depends on the genes and the amount of sunlight they get.

[John P]

Julie I think palms such as butias turn a different leaf shade depending on their planted position. This may be due to the type of soil or the climatic conditions they are grown in. (I do not know the anwer) A lot of palms such as cerifera have the blue leaves as they are native to a high altitude. The colouration is then to do with the way the palm has adapted to the ultra violet light which becomes more intence with height above sea level.

John

[Dave Brown]

Palms species which grow in places with extreme sunlight and at high elevation get very high doses of blue end of visible light and Ultra violet. The silver/blue colouration is reflecting the exccesive blue/uv light, protecting it from this harsh environment. Blue palms grown in shade tend to lose their blueness.

So to enhance your blue palms you need to give them a session at a tanning palour

[themes]

Blue palms grown in shade tend to lose their blueness.

I can testify to that.
Testify
Testify
oh lord I can testify

[Dave Brown]

Blue palms grown in shade tend to lose their blueness.

I can testify to that.
Testify
Testify
oh lord I can testify

We get questions about Butia capitata every winter when the wind opens the spears to reveal yellowy-grey coloured leaflets. It is just there is not enough light to colour them up

[themes]

I had that... is my palm dying moment.. still not sure

The new growth is healthy but the old leaflets look like they are dying

odorata

I don't remember this last year though

but I have a selective memory

[Conifers]

... Chamaerops Cerifera ...

Synonym of Chamaerops humilis var. argentea.

[palmking]

It actually depends on the Genes,sunlight as stated and how dry they're kept. A lot of the blue on Palms and agave's is from a bloom, or tomentum.In wetter locations, this can result in them looking much greener than they otherwise might.

Try it with Agave's .

Paul

[John P]

... Chamaerops Cerifera ...

Synonym of Chamaerops humilis var. argentea.

No I think they are different. The exotic trade call them cerifera and the garden centres argentea. Its all very confusing. I think argentea are the chamaerops with a silver underside to their leaves, a very different looking palm.

John

[themes]

I do not know where argentea came from? I see that RHS seem fond of this name. I refer to the atlas chamaerops as Cerifera, as most do. I would say each to their own, however when two terms are being using itsbound to lead to confusion.

We could settle this like vulcans with a fight to the death? but I feel tired so am just gonna call it Cerifera

[lucienc]

I'm going to test the shade (at virtual sea level) thing tomorrow.

Back when I first visited Nigel, I bought two cheap (omg where can we get them this cheap again) B.capitata.

One was very blue, the other VERY green. Apparently siblings.

Both have been grown next to each other most of the 2 years they have lived with me. Both are in mostly 95% shade (more like 100% shade in the summer). They have grown amazingly well, and I love them.

The test is, the "green" one has actually had a little bit more sun for the last 2 years than the "blue" one. I'll put them side by side tomorrow, and see what we think.

[Conifers]

Synonym of Chamaerops humilis var. argentea.

No I think they are different. The exotic trade call them cerifera and the garden centres argentea. Its all very confusing. I think argentea are the chamaerops with a silver underside to their leaves, a very different looking palm.

John

They're the same - see the Kew Palms Checklist.

Here's Chamaerops humilis var. argentea in the wild in Morocco; note glaucous on both sides of the leaves.

[redsquirrel]

if my capitata is anything to by,the bluey bit definately washes off in wetter weather.you would have had a hard job telling the difference from an eriospatha last year

[radio1julie]

Back to the argentea name again. I bought a brahea armata earlier this year that was named brahea argentea! At the time, i googled the word 'argentea' and it turned out to be french for 'silver'.