Planting my Cordyline indivisa

[weve]

Hi All
Here's how I planted my indivisa last week.

I feel a little inhibited about posting this in case everybody thinks I'm completely barking, going to so much trouble to plant one little indivisa, but after my previous indivisa post here, http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk/forum/v ... 114&t=5620, its more in the nature of an experiment and to satisfy my curiosity, rather than anything else. I thought at least to try to address the known issues (and even the "only possible" ones) concerning this plant, (not that I'm at all hopeful of its outcome. In fact, the perversity of gardening dictates, that by doing all this, it'll probably now die in 3 months rather than 3 years ).

What I've done, I must emphasise, is not based on any knowledge or experience but pure hunch and speculation, total shots in the dark really, but I'll explain my thinking (where there was any! )

I also realise its late in the year for planting, but I live in a mild area, I'm often away working (sometimes for a month or more) so it stands less chance of drying out whilst establishing now, should i be away, than if planted in spring, I also thought it would be not much worse off in the ground than stood outside in its pot. (which it has done for the last few winters). I have planted it on the slightly cooler side of my garden, where it is in shade from about noon onwards, as they are reputed to dislike extremes of heat (not there is much of that in the south west!) and should be less prone to drying out.

My soil is clayey (& mildly alkaline) so my emphasis was more on drainage than the additional requirement of the soil being "moisture rententive". To this end, I have dug a very large, roughly oblong, vertically-sided planting hole (about 5' x 3' 6").with the intention of planting the indivisa at one end of it.

I made the bottom of the hole sloping away from the plant.(about 3' deep at the plant end and 4' at the other), so when water reaches the less permeable & compacted mudstone (which underlies my soil) it'll hopefully tend to drain away from the plant.

I dug the hole to a depth basically to where i reached mudstone, which I then broke up with a pick axe to help drainage. The thinking behind digging such a large, long hole is that perhaps, in a normal sized planting hole, filled with amended soil, the roots develop OK until they reach normal soil (which on some soils could be problematical to the plant, who knows, -but alot of indivisas do seem to die at around 2 or 3 years after planting.This may not, of course, be the reason for failure at all, but it could be a possibilty, so i tried to address it)

The oblong shape will give the roots a very long root run in amended soil, at least on one side and the vertical sides will prevent water being possibly funnelled down any sloping sides and being concentrated around the root ball, which may contribute to waterlogging in very wet periods on my particular soil.

The partially filled hole:

Rootball:

As you can see from the rootball pictures there are alot of rotted roots.This may explain the slow growth this season. The potting medium (equal parts compost, john innes 3 and perlite/vermiculite) was compacted & waterlogged towards the bottom which is probably the cause of the rotting, or it may have been due to the exceptional cold of last winter. Difficult to say. Am encouraged tho' that it is still firm in its pot and there are at least fine healthy roots near the surface and a few large healthy ones too. After seeing this tho', I feel happier its now in the ground.

At the opposite end of the hole to the planting position, I dug a soak-away filled with some surplus chippings i had. To aid drainage further I layed a grit filled pipe sloping down to this. The intention was to remove the pipe after filling the hole leaving a core of grit in the soil. (I don't think this worked too well as the pipe diameter was too small. A larger diameter pipe, say a drainpipe, would have perhaps worked better).

I also sank a watering pipe to just below the level of the root ball (I have done this on my bananas, t.rex and rhubarb to good effect, despite the fact its generally considered a waste of time). I feel, this will allow me to control the watering better and provide a facility for deep watering with a drip nozzle should I be away from home during summer (NB the Indivisa was planted further away from the pipe than in the picture. I was just checking the depth with the plant when i took the photo).

Filled the hole with a mixture of approx. 40% soil, 30% compost, 10% peat (something i don't normally routinely use BTW) and about 20% perlite & grit (which I concentrated more at the planting end of the hole).with a very small amount of bone meal added.

Planted: a goodbye pic

Things didn't go completely to plan. It got dark before I could finish, so I had to put the indivisa back in its pot again, so it was disturbed more than I would have liked. I didn't manage to obtain any "Friendly Fungus" (as had been suggested) in time for planting, (I felt I couldn't delay too long). I may try to introduce this later, tho', as this may possibly help. I looked at pictures of indivisa growing in habitat and it seems to be growing in association with plants which commonly have mycorrhizal fungi.

I will update this thread with pictures of its progress (& death, no doubt). If (when) it does die I may try another, but this time add more grit and plant it in the ground straight away.

best

weve

[Petefree]

I hope it works for you weve.
They are beautiful plants. I have two tiny surviving seedlings from a sowing in spring and have potted them up into 7.5 litre pots - they look absolutely ridiculous - I'm following the suggestions in Christine Shaw's "Architectural Plants" book. They seem to have survived the potting on and have grown a bit (but still tiny.)
It's the scariest plant I've ever grown because it has such a reputation for being fickle and dying suddenly.
It sounds like you've done the right thing in terms of excavation and drainage - I guess the next step can only be prayer!
Pete

[Dave Brown]

Mine that I got from Nigel back in 2007 is now at death's door with just a central spear left It went rocky evey summer then I mounded gravel up against it and it seemed to recover over winter. This is the end of the 2nd year for me, and into that time they decline and die. Bodster got his at the same time but planted his out and his is, as far as I know, doing well...... but what he said, and I believe this may be of far more significance than initially thought..... he planted it out where there had been a conifer and the ground was improved with conifer needles (scales) whatever they are.

As with C. indivisa it is DRAINAGE, DRAINAGE, DRAINAGE, I planted mine in 1/3rd mp compost, 1/3rd coarse ground bark, and 1.3rd perlite. But alas it was looking very sick by the end of July. I decided I had to depot and look at what was going on. Well the simple answer was the well drained compost was no longer well drained

Most of the roots have rotted

It appears that the coarse ground bark and mp compost have broken down into a peat bog...... is this why they go down hill after a couple of years. the coarse material crumbles into fine dust, impedes drainage, and retains too much moisture

It was rocking as there were no decent roots to hold it stable.

The only live roots were down the side of the pot where the sun shone on it for about 5 hours a day. I presume the heat of the black pot dried the compost quicker

The mix I have put it in now having removed as much of the old compostas possible ( I know, I know..... don't disturb the roots, but I don't think I had a choice ) Is 50% pine needles and crushed Eucalyptus leaves, 30% mp, and 20% grit/gravel. The pine and confer needles have resin and don't rot down nearly as quickly

It declined further which I am not surprised about as we have had a warm dry, August. As I said is now down to one leaf, but I have not given up on it yet. It certainly drains now

I'll keep everyone updated

[themes]

That is bad news dave..

you don't get nearly as much rain as many of us and the plant is unhappy. This does not bode well, but we are a persistant lot

[Dave Brown]

That is bad news dave..

you don't get nearly as much rain as many of us and the plant is unhappy. This does not bode well, but we are a persistant lot

I'm not sure about this boding well or not. Loads of people lose them. I am trying to identify what, if I lose mine, I have done that could be done differently

[Si]

The guy next door to me has one (indivisa) at the front of his house (obviously the smaller of the two with the wider leaves to the left) it's 5 years old and was planted from very small and now has a nice thick trunk, it seems to be doing fine (sailed through all the last 5 winters) but, could do with a water in this dry Sept were having

[simon]

Si, I'm pretty sure that is an australis, not indivisa. It is not uncommon for nurseries to sell australis labelled as indivisa. If your neighbour says it is indivisa, it was probably mis-labelled.

[weve]

I'll have to concur with Simon that it is not an indivisa. Difficult to see from the photograph, but it looks to be branching (which is rare in indivisa- hence its name), leaf colour looks more australis to me (no bluish undersides and cannot see any red central midrib) and the leaves are relatively narrow. (australis seem a bit variable in leaf width, I have a wide-ish leaved australis in my front garden, but its still not in indivisa's league, alas).
Young indivisa leaf

indy leaf.jpg (50.91 KiB) Viewed 3827 times

As Simon says, many australis are labelled "indivisa". Seen it in Homebase and even my local garden centre. It seems they are imported from Holland mislabelled. The leaf veining and colour on Indivisa is the surest way to tell, however.
best
weve

[Si]

I've not seen Autralis leaves that wide, (nearly three times my australis and thicker too) but, my knowledge as a "newbie" is somewhat limited, he (neighbour) did say it was an indivisa, and I took him at his word, I feel like the guy at the bar in the "I'll get my coat" sketch
maybe there are variances 'beyond' colour? checkout "cassy the cordyline on here",
narrow leaves, trunked? described as an indivisa on here, by your valuation it can't be?...confused, I thought width of leaves was key here?

[Dave Brown]

Si, my webpage shows the Cordyline I grew from a packet of Cordyline indivisa seed, It is certainly not indivisa, and apart from that the leaves on an indivisa look like Chalk Brow's and this. There was my indivisa when in good health back in May 2008

If they don't look like this, it's not an indivisa

[Si]

cheers thanks for clearing that up.
these seem to be doing great up in northern Ireland
http://www.pbase.com/edgegallery/image/67418237

[weve]

Just a quick update on progress (and to tempt fate) as of the beginning of Feb.

My indivisa still lives!!!!! Immediately after planting it lost about 50% of its lower leaves within about 10 days (which yellowed at an alarming rate and had me quite worried). It was a very dry spell (for about a month) but i refrained from watering. This was followed by a very prolonged wet period, which waterlogged the soil leaving surface puddles around the plant (i'll have to something to improve this, i feel). During both the dry & wet periods and, despite loosing leaves, it also produced quite a few new ones, and at a much faster rate than when potted.

When this cold winter set in, covered the soil around the plant with some landscape fabric and the only other protection given was to cover the whole plant with a tub the few times when snow was forecast here. This was removed immediately after the snow threat had past (other than the landscape fabric and the occasional tub, no protection against temperature was given at all)

Seems to have held up very well against the temps and frozen soil (-5c or perhaps even a few degrees lower in its position). A tall Sundance very nearby is showing bad leaf damage whereas the indivisa shows none (so far).

Looking forward (with fingers firmly crossed) to see some growth this spring.

best
weve

[redsquirrel]

fingers crossed weve. just the fact that you have not reported it dead is a good sign.from what ive read elsewhere,once they go into decline,they dont do a lot else.the fact yours is pushing out new growth is quite encouraging.i have one nearing planting out size and im dreading that day incase i get it wrong

[weve]

Thanks for your post & support Redsquirrel, i live in hope! Good luck when planting yours. Say when, and I'll cross my fingers for yours too (can't have enough crossed fingers with this plant!).

i hesitate to say, but mine seems (slightly ) happier in the ground. I dread to think how it would have done in its pot in this prolonged cold!

best of kuck when you pluck up courage!
weve

[bev]

good luck weve

lets hope you've cracked the planting conditions required for these butters!

cheers

lee