An interesting comparison among various trachycarpus seeds

[garryendson]

The following is an interesting comparison among various trachycarpus seeds.
Tesan mountain form and cultivated form are the biggest of all varieties followed by Winsan and T.princeps-green (Nova). T.princeps-cultivated ,T.wagnerianus(waggy) and T.fortunei(Chusan) and Nainital have similar sizes.
T.princeps is the smallest one in general.

Among them, T.princeps is the hardest to germinate taking 6 months to 4 years very sporadically. T.princeps-green, Winsan, T.princeps-cultivated seem to be fast germinating ones taking 1-2 months. The rest share a similar germinating time normally 2-3months.

Regarding seedlings,T.princeps-green , Winsan ,and possibly T.princeps-cultivated grow faster with longer and wider leaves 20-30cm and 3-4cm respectively as compared to 15cm long and 2cm wide seen in T.fortunei and split leaflets of these varieties could appear within 1 year whereas others have medium growing speed.

[redsquirrel]

is there a common name for tesan? it is one of the Trachycarpus sp i dont have

[Dave Brown]

Hi Garry, and welcome

That is very interesting. Do the seed vary at all with good or bad cultivation, feed etc

I have one Trachycarpus (Wilmer) which I originally thought was a waggie, although not sold as one, as they were not really available back then, which has fruit/seed twice the size and wieght of the others. It has smaller leaves at about 24" (60cm). I have always thought it was not a standard fortunei. What are the plant caracteristics of tesan Looking at your picture the seed are definately tesan like compared to standard fortunei seed

Think I took some pics of the fruit I'll see if I can find them.

[garryendson]

As we see , regular T.fortunei imported into Europe is very thin with pretty long leaves on the European market.By comparison,Tesan is a cultivated variety of T.fortunei based on seed breeding and selection decades ago before brought into the experimental cultivation which showed that they demonstrate better hardiness and grow more robustly than T.fortunei.The growing result in Beijing and Tianshui, Gansu Province indicated that they withstand -20C to which we did not see any surprise. The following gives some explanation.
First glance at its huge seeds can tell the difference. Tesan seeds are 2-3 times bigger than T.princeps and even much bigger than those of regular T.fortunei(Chusan). That is what all people growing them said as some Americans said they were bit of like blueberry. Big seeds means they have better nutrition feeding the offspring well which is another factor they are growing stronger than its thin and floppy counterpart.Also it is an indicator as some people said that bigger seeds mean they are growing from the colder area.It is true based on my travel across the country seeing different palms in numerous places.But still even in the same place, we can still see the seed variety makes very big difference in their appearance,though nutrition may play a role in this respect.
Tesan leaves are stiffer and compacter because the surface are thicker ,thus better protecting from the cold damage to the leave.
Likewise, its hair on the trunk is far thicker as well making a fatter trunk. Most importantly, its original source is the northermost and they have survived a very long time of cold in this condition and the palms show somewhat difference in its look and cold hardiness.



Tesan updates.

http://www.palmsociety.org.uk/forum/top ... picid=1990
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load ... 51898.html

[Dave Brown]

Blimey, that last pic is a dead ringer for my Trunky Trachycarpus when it was younger, but is a male so has no seed.

When I bought the palm it was up on an exposed Garden Centre on a hill, and most of the trachies had broken leaves due to gales. I chose a small stocky looking one that had no wind damage. This has turned out to have 20" (50cm) leaves.
I called it Trunky Trachycarpus as the trunk was very thick. I stripped the fibre in 1993 and the trunk underneath was thick as well. I have said in previous discussions that a thick trunk would be better in freezing conditions. and wondered if growing it in the cold produced thicker trunks, but if this turns out to be a bred form, that would explain a lot of my unanswered questions.

Trunky in 1992

Trunky in 2009

This is Wilmer Trachycarpus (with large fruit/seed) 2006

Closer pic of Wilmer Trachycarpus in fruit

I had to trim Wilma as the leaves are very stiff and were in danger of taking someone's eye out walking along the footpath.

[Dave Brown]

Found the Trachycarpus seed pics

Blown off the tree in a storm Jan 2007

Sprouting Mar 2007

[garryendson]

Dave,
Cool palms and big seeds.It looks like a good parent palm if breeding is considered.
Trachycarpus is such a variable palm under and That is why we got dozens of varieties from different places .Some say all trachycarpus varieties or species belong to T.fortunei and diverge into dozens of the current available varieties we see today due to geographical ,topographical and environmental factors as well as human interference.

It is known to all that T.wagnerianus is a cultivation variety specially selected for the desired traits of compact and stiff look and good hardiness. Though no such variety is reported in China, it is still possible to see some variegated Trachyarpus which might be or look like T.wagnerianus with very small and stiff leaves I came across sometimes.
By variegation, it happens anytime beyond human control giving us big surprise,though little could be provoked by us through high-teck.

Some variegations are inheritable and stable passing down to the next generation and some are not posing big challenges to the artificial breeding and selection.
Say, T.fortunei Winsan could be a mutation ,but it is unknown if the offspring will look like the mother plants demonstrating 360 degree full circle. But the seedlings from the mother plant below do look quite different from those of regular T.fortunei by demonstrating broader and longer leaves faster growth speed than the counterpart.
How much chance will the seedlings be like the mother plant? none? 10%? or more?
It is hard to predict now.

T.nova could also be a variegated one, under the interference of human activities, specifically a cultivation variety whereas T.princeps is likely a naturally variegated one on the particular cliff with unique soil and rock distinct from the the nearby place.

[Dave Brown]

I know the circular leaved one is a variation of standard T.fortunei as one of the self sown seedlings, now 10 years old and 6 feet tall, at the foot of the mother palm, has almost 360 degree leaves. It is a beauty but I hope it can tolerate the wind once bigger as they grow about 30cm a year once at this stage.

Circular 10 year old self sown Trachycarpus f.

A bit corny now but here is a youtube vid of my Trachycarpus fortunei from 2008
http://www.youtube.com/user/HTUKDave?fe ... oh2lxKuJhU