large Phoenix canariensis_CIDP spear pull - advice needed

[RogerBacardy]

Hi, I had a Phoenix canariensis_CIDP with a fairly large trunk, it did nothing all Spring and Summer & finally spear-pulled a few weeks ago.




After the Phoenix canariensis_CIDP spear-pulled it was very, very hard to saw through due to the thickness of the trunk being about 18inches, so the centre was lower than the outer areas of the trunk (due to the spear pulling). The shape could be compared to a volcano, if that makes sense, with the centre hollowed out. I treated it with H202 a few times, but it didn't make any progress due to all the dead tissue still in there, so I finally managed to saw down to healthy tissue and I saw that there was a chance of recovery


But I have a problem - flies. Hundreds of them are swarming the plant, covering it and filling it with holes.

How can I get rid of them? I've found a small pane of glass which is keeping the larger flies off, but it's stopping the trunk from drying out, so creating a humid environment which is likely to cause further rot. Also, smaller flies are still getting in there and ruining the palm's diminishing chances of survival.


I'm thinking of 4 options:
1. Buy a large cloche, big enough to cover the entire stump to keep flies out and let sunshine in
2. Buy lots and lots of fly paper and surround the stump with it
3. Buy some 'seal & heal' to cure the exposed trunk, thus stopping the flies feeding on it, although I don't know if this is recommended for palms as this will be the growing point, not a stump which I want to seal up. this might stop it from growing.
4. Give up and put an olive tree there!


P.S.
I realise now that it was my fault that the Phoenix canariensis_CIDP spear pulled as I used soiled sawdust and straw as insulation on the trunk for the long harsh Winter, coupled with watering to the trunk in the Spring (it was transplanted last Autumn so I wanted plenty of water to help the roots establish). I watered the trunk knowing the water would trickle down in to the soil to help the roots establish, but I stupidly didn't consider how perfect the soiled sawdust/straw and water would be for bacteria to grow in the trunk! D'oh!

[RogerBacardy]

Poured on some more H2O2 & bought some fly-killer spray (which is now 1/4 empty), and tried to improvise a cloche with a 15inch upturned clear saucer (£4.99 from Wyevale!) But it was nowhere near big enough & didn't do the job as flies are still getting in, so covered it with bubble wrap temporarily, until the mini greenhouse I just ordered arrives.

At least the mini greenhouses (I ordered 2) will come in handy in future Winters, so it wasn't all money down the drain.

[Dave Brown]

Sorry to say this Roger, but if the flies are still attracted to it it is still rotting, have you tried H202 since cutting back further.... it may work on fizzing out any remaining rot, or the smell of rot, that is attracting them.

The little greenhouse looks interesting, where have you ordered it from, if you don't mind me asking.

[RogerBacardy]

Thanks for the reply, Dave, I think you're right.

The flies must be attracted to the smell of rot, I suspected it was just the sugary palm juice they were homing in on, but I didn't have any fly problems with the spear-pulled Robusta which I managed to saw clean through and rescue.

I think the H2O2 I poured on earlier today has helped the poorly Phoenix canariensis_CIDP, but there was still soft tissue in the outer areas of the stump.

So I scraped out as much wet tissue as I could, then I used kitchen towel to mop obvious dampness and it now looks a lot cleaner. No flies around this evening (hooray!), so I took off the bubble wrap.



The pop up green house was about £9, with £5 flat rate delivery, so I ordered 2 as I think they would be perfect for my small Robusta and my smallish Agave Americana this Winter.

They also had pop-up umbrella cloches, basically umbrellas with clear plastic! Was tempted to get those, but the mini greenhouses are a bit bigger.


Here are the links:


http://www.lbsgardenwarehouse.co.uk/Pop ... s-PRDUC01/

http://www.lbsgardenwarehouse.co.uk/Umb ... e-PRDUC35/

[sam140]

Your Phoenix canariensis_CIDP looks in pretty good condition after this winter. You're lucky to have any green.

[kata]

they also had pop-up umbrella cloches,

Gonna get one of them brolly ones for my Revoluta, thanks for the links Roger!

Yes I agreee Sam, it looks very good after some sad stories there has been. Its almost as green as the Tenerife one in a villa garden.

[Dave Brown]

Sam, Kata, Roger wrote that it does not look like in the pic now as it spear pulled and he had to saw the top off.

[RogerBacardy]

Still no growth, so gave up on it and dug it out, well what was left of it. Had to use a pickaxe and a mattock to wedge it out of the ground due to the bulk. Most of it's mass was underground due to it being chopped down so many times to remove the rotten tissue. It was still pretty hefty but I think I can saw it up and take to the council compost heap without any help Certainly a lot, lot lighter than when it had the full trunk and fronds which was when it was a 5 man job to carry it.


Even though it's of no use now, it was slightly pleasing to see that the friendly fungi granules I applied seem to have helped as it had made some new roots since I transplanted it, so perhaps there is / was some life left in it.

Still, I dug it out as it had spear-pulled earlier in the year & had just been a rotten stump for the last month, also every time I sliced through to healthy tissue that went mouldy too. I figured that it's now so small with only a small root system that even if it were to recover it probably would be no better than putting a younger, but healthy Phoenix canariensis_CIDP in there instead, so that's what I did.

The front garden now looks so much better with the healthy younger Phoenix canariensis_CIDP in there. I've had it in a large pot for the last 3 years, so it was ready to go in the ground.

To be honest, I'm happy and I've even had a visitor comment on the front garden looking good since the new Phoenix canariensis_CIDP went in.

[Dave Brown]

I would have said planting palms, other than Trachycarpus fortunei, this late was a bit risky. I prefer a May/June planting personally. Anyway, let's hope we have a milder winter

[RogerBacardy]

I agree, and even if I didn't I would bow to your superior experience!


Normally Autumn is suggested as a good time for planting due to the ground being warm yet unlikely to suffer from drought, but with border hardiness palms, we want to get them settled for as long as poss before the frosts.

I'm thinking that as this younger Phoenix canariensis_CIDP was in a massive planter, much bigger than it should have been in proportion to the size of the Phoenix canariensis_CIDP, it now has a very large root ball (root-cube actually), completely free from being pot-bound, and this very good root system should help it settle more quickly.

Also the area it has been planted in has been enriched with calcified seaweed, well rotted manure, tree and shrub compost, friendly fungi, take root and palm booster.

Come Winter, I'll tie the fornds up if it gets really cold and maybe wrap with fleece for the coldest nights. Fingers crossed we have a mild Winter!

[kata]

Sam, Kata, Roger wrote that it does not look like in the pic now as it spear pulled and he had to saw the top off.

Ooops, thanks Dave!

Also, I saved straw from my Revoluta delivery. Should I throw this straw away maybe?

I watched a video where straw was used in the center, then the fronds were secured then the whole lot was fleeced for the winter.

[Dave Brown]

Roger, we started to look into what the criteria for hardiness is, and in very many cases the only difference between those that survived winter 2009/10 and those that died was establishment time. Palms seem to go into a sulk and a bad winter in sulk time is not good.

Kata Cycas revoluta is not a Phoenix canariensis_CIDP so if we start discussing how to protect that in this topic it will confuse people

[RogerBacardy]

From what I've learnt via forums such as these, I agree completely. A potbound palm with circular roots stuck in the ground will take ages to establish and develop new deeper roots.


But the Phoenix canariensis_CIDP I planted was in 45cm wide planter that was twice as high as it was wide, the roots had barely reached the bottom of the planter so I really think these roots will take very little time to get established. I've also taken your recommendation of using a gravel mulch for thermal insulation (without the moisture retaining characteristics of bark chippings).


I know I did leave it late, (Ideally, I would have gone for May as a planting time) so it is a gamble, but I couldn't face seeing the stump there for another 6 months!


Here's a pic of the new younger Phoenix canariensis_CIDP in situ with the remains of the older one in the foreground.

[RogerBacardy]

And here it is in the context of the garden.

[kata]

Kata Cycas revoluta is not a Phoenix canariensis_CIDP

It was the straw idea, as it was mentioned I thought I would ask but thanks Dave.