Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Nigel
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by Nigel » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:25 pm

Dave, I think you jumped the gun a bit........ I didnt say the sun didnt affect us. I said its a misconception that the heat output changes.
If you read your article you will see it agrees with me, also acknowledges climate change, so I didnt understand incorrectly as you thought. Solar radiation energises the worlds jetstreams ( heat dissipation aparatus) so what happens is during a solar low the heat distribution falls, so places like the UK have weak jetstreams that plunge south and cause severe winters.
The actual heat output of the sun does not change at all, so globally the temperatures are not affected, which was my point. There have been several very interesting papers on the suns influence recently, and we still do not fully understand how it works.

Frankly I find it hard to believe anybody can seriously still believe our climate is not changing, when everything is unfolding exactly as we have been told it will.The graph in the previous post also shows the rise in CO2, an astonishing rise in almost no time which is clearly caused by man.

Dave I dont claim to know it all, but I know enough to realise there is sufficient eveidence that we cant afford to wait another 20 or 30 years to `understand it properly` because if the scientists are right, we dont have that time. We may not have a smoking gun, but we do have a lot of circumstantial evidence that cannot be ignored given the possible outcome.
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by stephenprudence » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:35 pm

added to this, the rise of the CO2, like most other things atmospheric, will be running on a lag effect, therefore its real effects have probably not been felt yet. We will see.

Image

The graph shows that we were on the pinnacle of natural warming by way of an interglacial, and we should be falling way into the glacial now, but this big CO2 rise has complicated things hugely.. we are entering a phase of anthropologically induced warming (indeed were in it now otherwise we would have felt the effects of a cooling by now)

Looking at a graph like this, if the trend remains that rising temperatures lags CO2, then we are going to see some seriously large rises in temperature within time frames of between the next 50-200 years at least in the Polar regions. Probably less pronounced everywhere else, but still large in comparison to what we've seen in the past.
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by Nigel » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:55 pm

Stephen the red line in your graph alone should be enough to start serious alarm bells ringing everywhere.
If we have a strong El Nino this year we could see hottest ever year recorded , the last few years have been retarded by a sequence of strong La Ninas . If that happens it will be interesting to see how the eco-terrorists in the US deal with it.
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by Dave Brown » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:18 pm

Nigel, some of the more recent research is showing the sun's output is not constant, and even that the magnetic field within sun spots is not constant. A recent series of documentaries narrated by Dr Brian Cox, reveals that new measurements idicate that in the last couple of solar cycles the flux in the spots is weakening markedly with each cycle. This means the number of spots does not indicate solar output. However they don't have enough data to show if this weakening is part of a larger cycle.

Where I do agree with the author, is that everyone rushing around like headless chickens saying "someone must do something" is completely pointless, as nothing will change.

There are only 2 things that can happen....
a - everyone voluntarily reduces their CO2 output - needs to start with ALL of US doing it. (I have been for over 10 years).
b - governments impose levies to ration CO2 output. This will severely disadvantage the poor in most countries, and deaths caused by lack of economy to buy food and warmth will soar. This is where the author likens Climate Change zealots to Nazi's, as they don't care how many die in the name of their cause.
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by Nigel » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:02 am

Dave Brown wrote: There are only 2 things that can happen....
a - everyone voluntarily reduces their CO2 output - needs to start with ALL of US doing it. (I have been for over 10 years).
b - governments impose levies to ration CO2 output. This will severely disadvantage the poor in most countries, and deaths caused by lack of economy to buy food and warmth will soar. This is where the author likens Climate Change zealots to Nazi's, as they don't care how many die in the name of their cause.
Dave, its not something we should leave for our kids to clean up, even if its only a 50% chance.
But essentially you are correct . EVERYBODY needs to do it , we get taxed to hell by our government, whilst the richest and highest polluter on earth ( USA )pumps out almost as much anti gw propaganda as it does CO2.
Instead of punishing the poor which i think is not particularly true, instead of taxing our own people until they squeak who already reduce Co2 as you already point out, we should tax the big polluters, the USA and China , we should tax their products with a carbon levy , one only has to see the photos of the air pollution in Beijing to see the cost of cheap chinese imports. Perhaps the world should come together and tax those big polluter countries products with carbon taxes ( the bigger the tax the worse they pollute). It just makes me angry to be taxed to death for this whilst the yanks and chinese just laugh in our faces and pump out such massive amounts of lies and propaganda together with their CO2 that nothing we can do will change anything.
Last edited by Nigel on Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by Nigel » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:13 am

As to sunspot activity, that is correct number of spots has nothing to do with heat output. The heat output does change but not in measurable quantities sufficient to affect earths temperature. The falling sunspot cycle has been a concern for some time, as you know the last time was the maunder minimum. However based on this years weather it seems melting sea ice in Alaska has rather severe consequences for the US, I find this quite ironic as they didnt seem to worry when melting greenland arctic ice gave us winter of 2010. If melting alaska ice takes precedence over the weather pattern,then GW might not be so bad as we first thought.
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by Tom2006 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:52 pm

I saw a good article the other week. Basically asking why people are against global warming theories and the resulting calls for a cleaner healthier less polluted planet in the hope of combating it. Afterall what's the worst that can happen?...we get a cleaner healthier less polluted planet and global warming isnt actually caused by us. icon_thumright
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by stephenprudence » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:59 pm

The simple answer to that Tom. is that anything we do, or try to re-do, will have consequences. Nature would eventually put it right, probably at our expense in the end.
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by doncasterpalmguy123 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:08 pm

To be fair though, nature shouldn't have to, even without global warming were destroying the planet and no-one on this earth can do anything to stop it.
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Tom2006
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by Tom2006 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:03 pm

stephenprudence wrote:The simple answer to that Tom. is that anything we do, or try to re-do, will have consequences. Nature would eventually put it right, probably at our expense in the end.
True...and its started already. I just dont get the logic of those skeptical against it. Whats the worst that happens?...we help make the world a less polluted place.
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by stephenprudence » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:01 am

Tom2006 wrote:
stephenprudence wrote:The simple answer to that Tom. is that anything we do, or try to re-do, will have consequences. Nature would eventually put it right, probably at our expense in the end.
True...and its started already. I just dont get the logic of those skeptical against it. Whats the worst that happens?...we help make the world a less polluted place.
Well worst case scenario, a good portion of the Earth's population is wiped clean off the Earth.. some people would see that as a good thing though!
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by Conifers » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:32 pm

:wink:
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Troppoz
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by Troppoz » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:30 am

Nothing like invoking Godwin's Law to back up your "argument" :roll:

Dave you know nothing about the science of climate change so how can you insist you have an informed opinion?? You accuse people of being "brainwashed" for accepting the science but pot, kettle and black spring to mind with your beliefs. Where do you get your information from if not the thousands of peer reviewed studies and informed scientists? Let me guess - the media? Yeah that says it all Dave so stop with this high and mighty looking down your nose and people who ARENT brainwashed like you appear to be.

Ive asked you before how you can explain the lack of warming in the upper atmosphere if the solar output is to blame for global warming but you never answered. Why was that?

If the sun is causing atmospheric warming then all levels of the atmosphere should be warming (even KNOWLEDGEABLE deniers acknowledge that) yet that is not what we are seeing and it is only the lower atmosphere that is warming inline with every climate change model. So explain that for your pet theory? :wink: I know you wont even attempt to Dave, seems you prefer to use this forum as your private soapbox to shout your "theories" but fail to respond to every salient point put to you.

Oh and using a BBC doco (even if it is from Dr Cox) for informing your opinions does not make you an informed expert, and science has known for close to a century that magnetism is not constant within sunspots so thats a moot point.

Such a sad attitude that your immediate short term small change finances are more important than the world we leave behind for future generations (including your children and grandchildren).

This forum is becoming (has become) a complete waste of bytes... icon_thumbdown
Last edited by Troppoz on Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are You A 'Climate Nazi'?

Post by Troppoz » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:32 am

Oh and its interesting that while climate change isnt happening, this year in Australia we have had the earliest cyclone in a cyclone season and now TWO cyclones are going to hit the north Queensland coast on Sunday, now that is UNHEARD of in our entire meteorological history!

http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wi ... 14.30,3000

Now lets not even talk about the weather the northern hemisphere has been getting! Chickens are coming home to roost my friend...
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