Winter Approaches!

[MikeC]

I'd like to point out that the "Gulf Stream keeps Europe warm" is actually a myth with no scientific basis whatsoever

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/research/o ... imate-myth

The Gulf Stream-European climate myth

The panic is based on a long held belief of the British, other Europeans, Americans and, indeed, much of the world's population that the northward heat transport by the Gulf Stream is the reason why western Europe enjoys a mild climate, much milder than, say, that of eastern North America. This idea was actually originated by an American military man, Matthew Fontaine Maury, in the mid nineteenth century and has stuck since despite the absence of proof.

We now know this is a myth, the climatological equivalent of an urban legend. In a detailed study published in the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society in 2002, we demonstrated the limited role that ocean heat transport plays in determining regional climates around the Atlantic Ocean. A popular version of this story can be found here.


http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/div/ocp/gs/

[Tom2006]

How can it be that we are so much milder than countries on the same latitude as us? Also those coasts on south west Ireland and south west England/Wales are so much milder than the rest of us? What is it that makes us milder then?

[MikeC]

How can it be that we are so much milder than countries on the same latitude as us? Also those coasts on south west Ireland and south west England/Wales are so much milder than the rest of us? What is it that makes us milder then?

It is the jet stream pushing up warmer air, not the gulf stream in the sea.

[Tom2006]

Not sure about that otherwise when the jet is right across us we would all get similar temperatures. That wouldn't explain why the locations I mentioned are so much milder, even in a cold spell.

[GoggleboxUK]

It's the North Atlantic conveyor.

[Dave Brown]

I'd like to point out that the "Gulf Stream keeps Europe warm" is actually a myth with no scientific basis whatsoever

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/research/o ... imate-myth

The Gulf Stream-European climate myth

The panic is based on a long held belief of the British, other Europeans, Americans and, indeed, much of the world's population that the northward heat transport by the Gulf Stream is the reason why western Europe enjoys a mild climate, much milder than, say, that of eastern North America. This idea was actually originated by an American military man, Matthew Fontaine Maury, in the mid nineteenth century and has stuck since despite the absence of proof.

We now know this is a myth, the climatological equivalent of an urban legend. In a detailed study published in the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society in 2002, we demonstrated the limited role that ocean heat transport plays in determining regional climates around the Atlantic Ocean. A popular version of this story can be found here.


http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/div/ocp/gs/

I'm inclined to say rubbish, so explain why the coast is milder than inland, if the sea has no influence ?

The reason western coasts experienced low temps was due to the easterly drift over many, many miles of inland snowfields getting super cold and countering any sea breezes. Even if the was a sea breeze there would have been a temperature inversion as the cold dense air flowed down to the coast.

In this set up the East coast was cold as the air was coming from Siberia, but had a sea breeze stopping radiation cooling.

[MikeC]

It's the North Atlantic conveyor.

The North Atlantic Conveyor is just another name for the Gulf Stream.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/20 ... _effe.html

Richard Seager, a scientist at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University in Palisades, N.Y., believes that the ‘Gulf Stream effect’ is a myth. The effect is the theory that the Gulf Stream (also known as the ocean conveyor-belt) is the reason that Europe suffers from milder temperatures during winter, compared to the same latitude in North America.

"The amount of warming that the current gives -- only about 2-3 degrees over land on either side -- is really small compared to the temperature difference between those regions, which is more like 15 to 20 centigrade in winter," he said. "So no one should ever confuse that temperature difference between the two regions as being in any way caused by the movement of heat by the Gulf Stream."

[Tom2006]

One guys theory though. I'll stick with all the rest saying otherwise. Incidentally what does this guy think causes our dramatically warmer weather in comparison to north america etc?

[stephenprudence]

Welcome Andy. I'm surprised you had -17C, I would have thought more around -9C?

I'm planning to move to Llandudno where the Gogarth region of the North shore only got down to -4 or -5C (if that..).. -10C is too much here.

It's worth wrapping Washies, but they are very tender when small, I lost mine this winter, and it barely went below -2C where I had it.

Technically it's the North Atlantic Drift that affects the UK, rather than the direct influence of Gulf stream, but 6 of one half a dozen of the other etc.

The Gulf Stream is responsible for pumping warm water towards us, then the NAD transports it around our island. The idea that it make no contribution is based on claptrap.

Also the idea that the gulf stream will stop is a myth, because of the Coriolis effect there is no chance of the Guld Stream/NAD stopping in our lifetime, or even in geological time, even during a global ice age, the Gulf Stream will not stop, but maybe temporarily diverted.

The coriolis affect would ensure we were significantly warmer that the east of US though as we would still have Atlantic systems, which would transport warm oceanic air to the country.

[Dave Brown]

It's worth wrapping Washies, but they are very tender when small, I lost mine this winter, and it barely went below -2C where I had it.

Are you talking form experience or from theory ? If you are wrapping Washingtonia and getting away with it, tell us all about it

Washingtonia filifera is more hardy to cold than robusta but cannot tolerate our cold damp climate. W robusta is less cold tolerant, but can just about take the cold damp in free airflow. Wrap a Washingtonia and the most likely outcome will be spear pull and growth point rot, regardless of temperature.

[stephenprudence]

It's worth wrapping Washies, but they are very tender when small, I lost mine this winter, and it barely went below -2C where I had it.

Are you talking form experience or from theory ? If you are wrapping Washingtonia and getting away with it, tell us all about it

Washingtonia filifera is more hardy to cold than robusta but cannot tolerate our cold damp climate. W robusta is less cold tolerant, but can just about take the cold damp in free airflow. Wrap a Washingtonia and the most likely outcome will be spear pull and growth point rot, regardless of temperature.

A bit of both really Dave, I stored mine indoors, out of frost but it still died from -2C, so I'm assuming, for a small Washingtonia robusta for example (they seem to be most widely sold), so I'm unsure about how it would fare.

I mean if you want my absolute advice this far north given the recent winters, it would be take it indoors for the winter, or at least somewhere heated if it is small.

[Yorkshire Kris]

I've fleeced and wrapped a clump of small washies with no ill effects (Two winters like this). I now prefer to bring the pot into the garage instead as less likely to die.

[Andy P]

Well i recorded minus 17 in my garden last winter although the thermometer i used was not the best. A very cheap thing from B&Q so not so sure of it`s accuracy.
The rope lights i ordered were delivered on saturday and i am very impressed with the amount of heat they give out. Especially if you wrap about a metre of it around fairly tightly.I`m fairly confident now that if i wrap a metre or so around my washies trunk and growing point and put a polythene sheet over her to keep the worst of the rain and snow off she should make it through. Fingers crossed.
Andy

[Tom2006]

They sound good Andy! What is the length of the cable to the lights? Been thinking of getting some myself, do you have a,link to the ones you got please?

[Andy P]

The length of cable to the lights is only about 1.5 metres Tom but that`s ok for me as i have a greenhouse right next to my palm so can run the cable out of there. i`m sure you could source a longer cable though if you had a rummage around google.
Andy