Sabal sp. Birmingham

Post by **Dave Brown** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:32 pm

Someone on UKO passed on the topic link I started asking for an ID of the Sabal, to the International Palm Society people. The consensus seems to be that I have a Palmetto

All the Palmettos I have seen have much smaller leaves. If it is a palmetto my roof is a gonner.

Pic of the Costapalmate leaf showing the midrib.

turtile, my S.minor var Louisiana seed are in warm water soak at 30C (86F).

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:07 am

Does your site allow hot linking? I can post the pictures from your album on another board. Many people there live where Palmetto is native unlike the IPS board.

It doesn't look like Palmetto to me but climatic conditions can cause different size leaves. How much heat do you give your Sabal? Anything over 30C will allow for fast growth.

Hopefully Louisiana will do well in your climate. Do you know which heat zone you're in? (days 30C and higher)

Heat Zone:
#1 - <1
#2 - 1 to 7
#3 - 7 to 14
#4 - 14 to 30
#5 - 30 to 45
#6 - 45 to 60 (my heat zone)
#7 - 60 to 90 (Sabal Minor's minimum native habitat)

Post by **Dave Brown** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:30 am

Turtile,

unfortunately you can't hot link to pictures on the website, but you can save the pic to your pc and then upload it to the board using their 'add image' facility, if they have one.

I'd say generally my area heat zone is around 2 in an average year, but it is variable. Last year we had over 30 days above 30C, this year only 1 so far and running out of time. However, my back garden is a microclimate, within a microclimete. Depending on siting, between zone 2 and 4, and the covered courtyard easily 6 or 7. The courtyard is south faceing with a polycarbonate roof and only open to the south. Temps reach the high 40s C (120s F)on occasion, but around or above 30C most of late spring and summer.

The problem is the USDA and heat zone index is very simplistic, and not necessarily a good indication of plant growth. For instance using the USDA index I am Zone 8b or 9 (Northern Florida) BUT the sun is always 20+ deg lower, and our average January max is around 8C (46F) not 21C (70F). So some plants will just survive, not being killed by cold, but will not grow or thrive. In the same way the heat index is just a maximum. My courtyard gets heated by the sun to 10 or 15C above ambient by day, but will only be 1 or 2C above ambient at night, and our average lows are around 14 or 15C in summer, considerably lower than Northern Florida.

My palm definately seems to be growing a trunk, but I have read that Sabal Minor will do that in waterlogged ground. This one is in heavy aluvial clay over chalk bedrock. I have also read that Sabal hybridises easily, so could this be a palmetto x minor

Post by **Dave Brown** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:37 pm

Flowering Sabal Update.

About 75% of the flowers have dropped off now, but that leaves 25% on the flower branches. The only problem now is that we are not likely to see any growth at all until next April or May. As these palms flower in Spring, I'm not sure what it will make of a winter immediatly following spring.

I'll leave the branches on this year, but will have to cut one leaf off to make room for all the other plants that have to go under there as the weather cools off.

Post by **Dave Brown** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:26 am

TurtileThe Sabal Louisiana seeds, you sent me, have sprouted. 18 up so far.

That is certainly quicker than I expected as they have been in for just over a month. Already several roots have emerged from the bottom of the pot.

The Sabal ?minor? flowers are still on the branches, so it looks they have fertilised, but no growth so far, as might be expected over winter

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:15 pm

I managed to get some S. birmingham seeds from a friend in the US on an exchange basis. They germinated about as well as most Sabals. The plants are pretty fast growing for Sabals though....well compared with others I've grown.
Unfortunately I have lost touch with my USA friend for the moment.

Post by **Dave Brown** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:18 pm

Dave,I wasn't aware of anyone having S.Birmingham in the UK. How big and how old

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:51 pm

Hi Dave,
I've got one thats about 4/5 years old. About 40cms high, and I did have quite a few seedlings which unfortunately I let go. I'll try and get a pic up sometime.

Post by **Dave Brown** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:25 pm

Ok thanks Dave, How many seedlings did you have ? It will be interesting to see how Louisiana comapres for speed of growth, as I said I have 18 up in a month at a temp of around 25C.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:06 pm

I cant recall the exact number now Dave. I've had maybe twenty or thirty over last few years. As I said, they've all gone, and some of course have died in 'early childhood'.
I didn't realise that I hadn't got any left at all until I replied to this thread.
I usually keep a couple in reserve just in case. I suppose I should take care of this last one now!
Well done with the lousiana. I find that Sabals are very good germinators if they are fresh, then can take months. I did have some Sabal minor 'cape hatteras' that took absolutely months to come through. In fact I'd given up with the bag. Then one day I noticed a root showing through the polythene, and blow me if they hadn't nearly all popped.

Las Palmas Norte · Post by **Las Palmas Norte** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:32 pm

Here's my Sabal 'Birmingham' that was planted this year. It was in a gallon pot (strap leaves) and was quite root bound so rather than move it up to a larger pot, I planted it.

Cheers, Barrie. (Vancouver Island)

Post by **Dave Brown** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:39 pm

Hi Barrie, and welcome to the forum

For such a rare palm they certainly have been putting it about.

Las Palmas Norte · Post by **Las Palmas Norte** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:45 pm

Thanks Dave ... glad to have you welcome me. Yes, even over this way, it's quite difficult to aquire and I was fortune to have this one given to me by a fellow palm enthusiast. I will spare it from the worst weather until it gains in size.

Cheers, Barrie.

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:11 pm

Nice Job! That really fast for 25C.

When I grew both Sabal Louisiana and Sabal Minor "Cape Hatteras" at the same time - the Louisiana grew almost twice as fast. Sabal sp. Birmingham is currently my slowest growing palm. I think it will begin to grow much faster with age.

Post by **Dave Brown** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:02 am

For me this is an odd time of year to grow palms from seed, but having been told they need to be fresh to germinate quickly, they went straight in. It will be very odd potting up palm seedlings in the run up to Christmas

Even odder to sow cacti in November