What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

[bordersboy]

Here`s my unscientific approach to plant feed----- Buy whatever is in the clearance deals at end of season for the following year,same applies with the buying of the plants themselves
Might try to get some comfrey going soon though.

[Dim]

Compost tea doesn't seem like a bad idea but doing it relentlessly or on established soil might be a waste of effort. Your soil can only support so many microbes and adding more won't necessarily increase the count. It would probably be better to mix in the organic matter directly, thereby increasing the microbial carrying capacity. From there, the microbes can breed on their own, they've been doing it for a few billion years now.

not according to this guy .... or the guys who hold the world records for giant pumkins etc .... (and they don't use miracle gro)

So, massive scientific double blind studies are wrong because an old pumpkin grower with a beard said so?

perhaps the key ingredient is molasses? .... this is the key ingredient of all Actively Aerated Compost tea recipes ...

some/many nutrients aimed at the hydroponic growers contain molasses and/or extracts from sugar beet in one form or the other ... one such product is Biobizz grow which has sugar beet extract as the main ingredient ...

[Matcycas7]

Dim, that guy is awesome in the video. Is he from Atlantis?
Why is he using bubbles in that liquid ? Hats off to him as he is in the Guinness World Record. I think his secret can make Cycas to flush 10 times a year. as he ripped off 40 potatoes from 1 plant in that video.
He looks like captain Haddock with a bottle of rum holding a secret up his sleeves. .

[Vagetarian]

perhaps the key ingredient is molasses? .... this is the key ingredient of all Actively Aerated Compost tea recipes ...

some/many nutrients aimed at the hydroponic growers contain molasses and/or extracts from sugar beet in one form or the other ... one such product is Biobizz grow which has sugar beet extract as the main ingredient ...

I thought almost all organic liquid fertilisers were molasses based. Funnily enough, as you say, they use the cheaper sugar beet molasses that's not fit for human consumption whereas you can get the top quality black strap molasses for less. I sometimes use the blackstrap molasses myself, as it certainly does provide food for the microbes and it's also one of the only organic sources of potassium I could find (NPK is usually around 1-0-5, I think).

Personally speaking, I'd still just tip all the stuff on the soil and mix it in, mother nature knows best.

Matcycas, the bubbles are to keep oxygen in the water. The little microbes need oxygen or they die.

[Dim]

Dim, that guy is awesome in the video. Is he from Atlantis?
Why is he using bubbles in that liquid ? Hats off to him as he is in the Guinness World Record. I think his secret can make Cycas to flush 10 times a year. as he ripped off 40 potatoes from 1 plant in that video.
He looks like captain Haddock with a bottle of rum holding a secret up his sleeves. .

he hails from Ireland, but lives abroad:

http://www.recordholders.org/en/records ... bles2.html

he knows his stuff ....

[Kristen]

It would probably be better to mix in the organic matter directly, thereby increasing the microbial carrying capacity. From there, the microbes can breed on their own, they've been doing it for a few billion years now.

Friend of mine, who did a PhD in soil microbes, said that she thought that adding leaf mould would do just as good a job as using mycorrhizal fungi out of a packet (and I think that stuff is expensive - on a per-planted-plant basis)

[Dim]

It would probably be better to mix in the organic matter directly, thereby increasing the microbial carrying capacity. From there, the microbes can breed on their own, they've been doing it for a few billion years now.

Friend of mine, who did a PhD in soil microbes, said that she thought that adding leaf mould would do just as good a job as using mycorrhizal fungi out of a packet (and I think that stuff is expensive - on a per-planted-plant basis)

it's also to do with Brix Levels (sugar content) .... I have read that buyers from Marks and Spencers have refractometers and they check the sugar content of fruit and veg from farmers before buying .... thats one of the reasons that their tomatoes taste sweeter and better than Tesco finest ....

I have also read that top chefs in the USA go to markets with their refractometers and check the Brix levels of the veg before buying and cooking ...

here is a brix chart:
http://www.highbrixgardens.com/pdf/brix-chart.pdf

and here is an article:
http://www.highbrixgardens.com/nutrient ... foods.html

and here is a recent article about M&S and a new type of tomato that has a very high brix level:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ds-newsxml

I may look at buying one of these refractometers as I have started growing my own veg now ...

thats why I said that perhaps Molasses is the key ingredient and 'sweetens things up'?

but I'm just guessing

[Dim]

parsley: this was a tesco £1.25 pot that was snipped/hacked and most leaves removed ... the client put the 9cm pot outdoors, ... I had a gap in a bed and stuck it in the ground ... fed it weekly with compost tea , and this is what it looks like today (the client removes and snips parsley from this plant weekly) .... it is starting to look like a leylandii:



so, we all have our own methods of fertilizing, as as long as it works for you, thats fine .... I have more pics from the same garden showing ferns etc but it's not loading on the forum

[Vagetarian]

Dim, the molasses won't directly sweeten the fruits as the plant won't really take up the sugar molecules. Molasses just supplies a little potash, some micronutrients, and a relatively high energy food for the microbes.

Don't forget that brix is only a measure of sugar when measuring an actual sugar solution. It is otherwise a measure of dissolved solids in general and thus it's possible to have a higher brix tomato, with lower sugar, due to other compounds being present in greater numbers. The taste test cannot be beaten.

Also, I believe that sugar content is based on; genetics, climate and then nutrition/plant health, in that order. You can use a refractometer to compare different varieties grown together but you cannot use it to compare growing techniques from one season to the next due to climate variables, even in a climate controlled greenhouse (variable light). It's very hard to make any truly conclusive findings.

It would probably be better to mix in the organic matter directly, thereby increasing the microbial carrying capacity. From there, the microbes can breed on their own, they've been doing it for a few billion years now.

Friend of mine, who did a PhD in soil microbes, said that she thought that adding leaf mould would do just as good a job as using mycorrhizal fungi out of a packet (and I think that stuff is expensive - on a per-planted-plant basis)

Well, there's no PhD here just yet but I generally just mix in some home made compost into my potting mediums and try not to disturb my little bits of actual soil too much.

It has to be said (maybe reiterating myself) that there's no point in applying microbes to established plants. The rhizosphere will already be up to it's maximum capacity for microbes and if that capacity is low, then there's a problem with the soil that adding more organisms simply won't fix.

EDIT: That is a good parsley Dim. Compost tea almost certainly helps with freshly planted plants, how much more than directly applying the compost alone is debatable, but it's probably a little quicker with tea.

[Kristen]

Friend of mine, who did a PhD in soil microbes, said that she thought that adding leaf mould would do just as good a job as using mycorrhizal fungi out of a packet

... I generally just mix in some home made compost into my potting mediums[/quote]

I don't know if it is critical, but she was definitely talking about leaf mould rather than compost.

[Vagetarian]

I don't know if it is critical, but she was definitely talking about leaf mould rather than compost.

Yes, leaf composts are supposedly best for the mycorrhizal fungi. But if they're in the compost tea, then they must have been in the compost too.

[Dim]

I don't know if it is critical, but she was definitely talking about leaf mould rather than compost.

Yes, leaf composts are supposedly best for the mycorrhizal fungi. But if they're in the compost tea, then they must have been in the compost too.

when brewing compost tea, you are not multiplying mycorrhizal fungi, ....you are breeding bacteria/archaea and fungal hyphae (if present in compost) which are beneficial to plants .... the ingredients used in the tea, the temperature of the water and the duration of the brew determines if the brew is fungal or bacterial ....

some guys own powerful microscopes and check the brew constantly to see if its fungal or bacterial .... but they too are still learning, and everyone seems to have their own method and ingredients

I'm also still learning about all this, but am happy with the way things have panned out with my recipe and method so far

here is a good article explaining compost tea:

http://www.microbeorganics.com/#What_is_Compost_Tea_

[Dave Brown]

I make Bell Bind tea, It has the best yield (tonnage) of any plant in my garden. I pull the tops off with as much rhizome as possible, and chuck them in a bucket of water for a couple of weeks. It seems to ferment without anything added. Can't put Bell Bind on the compost heap, and this way it puts back what it took out

[Kristen]

leaf composts are supposedly best for the mycorrhizal fungi. But if they're in the compost tea, then they must have been in the compost too.

Good point. Perhaps using leaf mould (i.e. in the planting) provides a better environment for the mycorrhizal fungi to then thrive and assist the new plant (compared to just mixing in Compost)

Trouble is ... I don't have a huge amount of leaf mould. Compost, made from weeds I have pulled up is plentiful.

I make Bell Bind tea, It has the best yield (tonnage) of any plant in my garden. I pull the tops off with as much rhizome as possible, and chuck them in a bucket of water for a couple of weeks. It seems to ferment without anything added. Can't put Bell Bind on the compost heap, and this way it puts back what it took out

I think this might apply to all deep rooted plants/weeds? Either way, excellent way to recycle them without risk

Comfrey is a good example, used as an organic source of Potassium as its deep roots pull it up from right down in the subsoil. Often to be found on allotments grown as a source of "free fertiliser"

(For anyone not familiar with it make sure you source the Boking 14 variety, as that is sterile and regular Comfrey will self seed everywhere and is hard to get rid of)

[Vagetarian]

Good point. Perhaps using leaf mould (i.e. in the planting) provides a better environment for the mycorrhizal fungi to then thrive and assist the new plant (compared to just mixing in Compost).

Trouble is ... I don't have a huge amount of leaf mould. Compost, made from weeds I have pulled up is plentiful.

Probably, it is called leaf mould after all. Having said that, I stopped mixing my compost bin for a few days (it's steaming like mad at the moment), returned to mix it yesterday and it's gone half white, looks like it's been on fire, so much fungus.

I make Bell Bind tea, It has the best yield (tonnage) of any plant in my garden. I pull the tops off with as much rhizome as possible, and chuck them in a bucket of water for a couple of weeks. It seems to ferment without anything added. Can't put Bell Bind on the compost heap, and this way it puts back what it took out

I think this might apply to all deep rooted plants/weeds? Either way, excellent way to recycle them without risk

Yeah, if I have a decent little pile of weeds I put the whole lot in a sealed bucket of water for 3 months and then compost them.

I don't know if it is critical, but she was definitely talking about leaf mould rather than compost.

Yes, leaf composts are supposedly best for the mycorrhizal fungi. But if they're in the compost tea, then they must have been in the compost too.

when brewing compost tea, you are not multiplying mycorrhizal fungi, ....you are breeding bacteria/archaea and fungal hyphae (if present in compost) which are beneficial to plants .... the ingredients used in the tea, the temperature of the water and the duration of the brew determines if the brew is fungal or bacterial ....

some guys own powerful microscopes and check the brew constantly to see if its fungal or bacterial .... but they too are still learning, and everyone seems to have their own method and ingredients

Unless you have a good source I'd say it's very wishful thinking to think you can control whether you brew fungi or bacteria. You can pretty much absolutely guarantee that fungus is present in the compost, unless you're in a lab there are spores everywhere. You will be breeding them with or without hyphae, hyphae are like roots but not all fungi have them, some are unicellular (yeast).

Yes, you cannot grow mycorrhizae without live roots but presumably the spores are about.

I have a Soviet lab grade microscope which goes to about 2000X but I'm too lazy for oil immersion so my limit is 450x