Canary Island date palm, to move or not to move...?

[cheshirepalms]

I've heard of some in Northern Ireland, but I'd guess Northwest Scotland in the UK is the limit and then they would have to be on the coast. There are some up the coast at West Kirby and New Brighton close to me, about 17 miles away. I want to try and do it away from the coast.

[cheshirepalms]

It would be interesting to know were the furthest north Phoenix canariensis_Phoenix canariensis_CIDP is. I know of some in North Wales but there must be some a lot further north than that. I suspect the west coast of Scotland. Unless you know better.

I would leave that one where it is and plant another one in a more suitable space, better still plant a Jubaea, they are undoubtedly hardier.

I'm out of space for palms now and have some potted ones that I need to find homes for, there could be a place if the twin of the palm in this poll does not make it. I'm deliberately not protecting as an experiment, after a spear pull last May, and it did recover over the summer.

[cheshirepalms]

It would be interesting to know were the furthest north Phoenix canariensis_Phoenix canariensis_CIDP is. I know of some in North Wales but there must be some a lot further north than that. I suspect the west coast of Scotland. Unless you know better.

I would leave that one where it is and plant another one in a more suitable space, better still plant a Jubaea, they are undoubtedly hardier.

Did its friend recover or did you whip it out.

No its friend is still there.

[jungle jas]

Glad to see you left it, I think most people give up on palms to quickly.

[Blairs]

It would be interesting to know were the furthest north Phoenix canariensis_Phoenix canariensis_CIDP is. I know of some in North Wales but there must be some a lot further north than that. I suspect the west coast of Scotland..

West coast of Scotland palms tend to be large Cordylines and not Palms. Inverewe Gardens may have CIPD but from memory it was mainly Trachycarpus. That garden is north. As a guess, I would be that they would not last long much further north that the Clyde or Tay estuaries.

A difficulty is a bushy 1-5 metre CIPD is about £10-15 from a DIY shed, so seeing large ones in summer does not mean that survive all year round.

There is a largish one near me which is east facing with a stone wall behind it and surrounded by bamboo and Fatsia, so is sheltered and I have been keeping an eye on it as it seems to be doing fine. My large one kept blowing over in its pot and that damaged the fronds. I then planted in the ground in spring of 2012 just before the wettest summer ever. It went down hill from then and I finally throw it in the compost heap in spring 2013. It probably would have come back as the roots looked healthy but I doubt it would be something nice to look at for years and sod that.

[doncasterpalmguy123]

Doncasterpg, it is not rude for people to refer to their experience, and getting a Phoenix canariensis_Phoenix canariensis_CIDP through a winter is mostly about luck and microclimate. They are not generally hardy in UK away from mild coasts UNLESS you give it a very good microclimate.

Sorry dave, did not mean to come across a bit sharp however people was not really referring to their experience, rather damning the species as a whole in the UK i.e "it will not survive", "will not be a long term plant", "throw away palm" etc

[GREVILLE]

Just added a no for the sake of why deny the enjoyment of seeing how long you can keep it. (You might not enjoy digging out a toasted giant in 2024 )

[Nathan]

I think people take too much of a dim view on the hardiness of these palms. On this very thread there are people saying "if it even survives", well for one thing do you know how disheartening that is and quite rude really. Secondly My Phoenix canariensis_Phoenix canariensis_CIDP is in its second winter in the ground and has survived -6C with fleece. To be fair i think they're quite hardy palms, i hear of people loosing them down south, maybe certain palms within the species are naturally hardier than others.

It isn't rude, it is being realistic. Away from the mildest localities in the UK, Phoenix canariensis are not a long term prospect. Yes they may well be fine for a few years, but sooner or later a cold winter will kill them...

[rburrena]

I think people take too much of a dim view on the hardiness of these palms. On this very thread there are people saying "if it even survives", well for one thing do you know how disheartening that is and quite rude really. Secondly My Phoenix canariensis_Phoenix canariensis_CIDP is in its second winter in the ground and has survived -6C with fleece. To be fair i think they're quite hardy palms, i hear of people loosing them down south, maybe certain palms within the species are naturally hardier than others.

It isn't rude, it is being realistic. Away from the mildest localities in the UK, Phoenix canariensis are not a long term prospect. Yes they may well be fine for a few years, but sooner or later a cold winter will kill them...

I agree to a certain extent, if these were so much of a long-term prospect then perhaps there would be more larger specimens around?

Having said this I think people need to try and avoid the "my Phoenix canariensis_CIDP died, therefore it's not hardy in the UK/therefore yours will die too" mentality.

These plants can be surprisingly resilient given a little help, they are easily damaged but can make very strong recoveries given the chance. My tiny palm came through -9C in 2010 and has now truly taken off, it seems to have doubled in size this year.

[Dave Brown]

I agree to a certain extent, if these were so much of a long-term prospect then perhaps there would be more larger specimens around?

Having said this I think people need to try and avoid the "my Phoenix canariensis_Phoenix canariensis_CIDP died, therefore it's not hardy in the UK/therefore yours will die too" mentality.

These plants can be surprisingly resilient given a little help, they are easily damaged but can make very strong recoveries given the chance. My tiny palm came through -9C in 2010 and has now truly taken off, it seems to have doubled in size this year.

I'll agree with that. They are really worthy of a go, but you have to accept without researching/finding/creating the right micro-climate they are not a long term prospect away from milder coasts.

For me, the right micro-climate has already been taken 30 years ago, so I have lost many My neighbour over the road has a near perfect micro-climate for them, with a suntrap sheltered from north, east and west, and her's survived December 2010 unprotected. However, I suspect when it really takes off, she will want it dug out. as will shade the whole front of the house.

[rburrena]

I'll agree with that. They are really worthy of a go, but you have to accept without researching/finding/creating the right micro-climate they are not a long term prospect away from milder coasts.

For me, the right micro-climate has already been taken 30 years ago, so I have lost many My neighbour over the road has a near perfect micro-climate for them, with a suntrap sheltered from north, east and west, and her's survived December 2010 unprotected. However, I suspect when it really takes off, she will want it dug out. as will shade the whole front of the house.

Interesting how the sunny position makes the difference.

I think i am lucky with micro climate, i didnt plan it, but mine gets sun just about whenever it is sunny all year round, and its quite sheltered. although it has got some damage every winter it has been in the ground, it grows fast though so the damage is grown out pretty quickly.

As for your neighbour it depends how tolerant she is of the plant blocking out the light for a few years and taking up most of the garden. Mine too is far too close to the fence, it is scary how big they get. When I see them at trunking size or near on the south coast it shocks me, I am debating whether to move mine also, i have seen some big ones in tight spots too, i am wondering whether i will get away with it. It is about 100cm from the fence to the centre of the plant. Maybe i should nick the idea in this thread and do a poll!

[dino]

That's a great looking grouping your neighbour has Dave. Obviously had some inspiration from somewhere

[stephenprudence]

Here Washies and CIDPs will have 10 year intervals (or so) without any damage, and varying amounts of damage in between, then the occasional outright death. Now I would grow one of these, and I'm sure I could get it much bigger over say 5-15 years, however.. I don't have the space for it.

Exotic gardens around here are primarily based on Mediterranean/Arid style gardens rather than jungly style ones, generally.

[cordyman]

I'd not move it CP, but protect as you have been doing and enjoy it while its still growing/gaining size. It would be very impressive if it got to thick chunky trunk stage, and the fence wouldnt be an issue IMHO.


I'm digging my Phoenix canariensis_CIDP out this year, it looks similar to yours, but is a real slow mover, I think its taken some unseen damage at some point in a previous winter and although not spear pulled, my Jub is moving quicker! I think its on a slow decline, it showed slight signs of recovery in 2013 but the spear production was dismal.

I lost two specimens in my front garden in 2009 in my front garden too. I agree with other members who have tried these that they are truly bedding plants. Washy's seem quicker and hardier in my garden with the same protection methods

[cheshirepalms]

Well based on everyone's opinions and advice I will leave it and hope it doesn't interfere with the fence. Its needed no real protection at all this winter and the constant rain will remain its major threat this year I think. At least the wind had aided the drying out of the crown and they not the type of palms to be battered by winds like fan palms do. It looks in pretty good nick, although they both did last year and one spear pulled. I have about 6 washies in the greenhouse Cordy and I don't have the room to house them for another winter and no real space for outdoor pots, so I'll need to plant at least one by god knows where lol.