is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Tom2006
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is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by Tom2006 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:19 pm

Im going to be repotting my tree ferns soon. I remember peopleadvising against the use of bone is the fish blood bone. Is there a good replacement for the fish and blood elements please?
Most wanted list - Any Young Trachycarpus and/or fern.

rburrena

Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by rburrena » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:19 pm

Tom2006 wrote:Im going to be repotting my tree ferns soon. I remember peopleadvising against the use of bone is the fish blood bone. Is there a good replacement for the fish and blood elements please?
Do you remember why they advised against it? I use it a lot. Sorry, don't have an answer but am curious.

Blairs

Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by Blairs » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:40 pm

rburrena wrote:
Tom2006 wrote:Im going to be repotting my tree ferns soon. I remember peopleadvising against the use of bone is the fish blood bone. Is there a good replacement for the fish and blood elements please?
Do you remember why they advised against it? I use it a lot. Sorry, don't have an answer but am curious.
It was Dim

"I have read (on several forums), that Fish/blood and bone is detremental to mycorrhizal fungi ...

here is one article:

http://puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalke ... nemeal.pdf

from what I understand, bone meal is the culprit ... blood meal and fish meal used on their own is very good .... so, I no longer use products with bone meal"

http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk/forum/v ... ne#p407514

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Yorkshire Kris
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Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by Yorkshire Kris » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:58 am

I thought bone meal is marketed as being the thing to use for strong root development?

fern Rob

Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by fern Rob » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:07 am

I'm no expert on Microrisa associations are common between plants and fungi and both work together to increase growth. I'm not sure though that Tree ferns have a association as there is something about the roots that makes me feel its would not have one.

Tom2006
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Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by Tom2006 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:56 am

I ended up just getting a generic all season general slow release feed.
Most wanted list - Any Young Trachycarpus and/or fern.

Blairs

Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by Blairs » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:25 pm

Tom2006 wrote:I ended up just getting a generic all season general slow release feed.
That is what I use...not lost any yet!

rburrena

Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by rburrena » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:37 pm

Whenever I plant something i put loads of fish, blood and bone in the planting hole around the roots, should I not do that?

Blairs

Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by Blairs » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:51 pm

rburrena wrote:Whenever I plant something i put loads of fish, blood and bone in the planting hole around the roots, should I not do that?
It is not clear cut. Bonemeal is there to provide Phosphorous and that is useful for root growth. Fish and blood provide other nutrients. There is a thought that too much Phosphorous stops fungi from growing and fungi and the plant can work together to build extensive roots, at least in experiments. If you have it then use it, if it works for you then buy more.

rburrena

Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by rburrena » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:00 pm

Blairs wrote:
rburrena wrote:Whenever I plant something i put loads of fish, blood and bone in the planting hole around the roots, should I not do that?
It is not clear cut. Bonemeal is there to provide Phosphorous and that is useful for root growth. Fish and blood provide other nutrients. There is a thought that too much Phosphorous stops fungi from growing and fungi and the plant can work together to build extensive roots, at least in experiments. If you have it then use it, if it works for you then buy more.
Yes, I believe that this I have had success with doing this, but it is more intuition, as plants have done well, no scientific evidence to back this up.

flounder

Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by flounder » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:52 pm

I've used BF&B for over 30 years without a problem.

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Leigh
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Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by Leigh » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:27 pm

flounder wrote:I've used BF&B for over 30 years without a problem.
Ditto
Leigh

Vagetarian

Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by Vagetarian » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:51 am

The article that DIm linked is really very poorly written. If you look closely you'll see that it's talking about gardeners who walk around throwing pure bonemeal (high in phosphorous) everywhere. It's got as much to do with fish blood and bone as it has to do with every other balanced compound fertiliser in the world.

People always used to think that phosphorous was 'for roots' because if you give plants lots of P, they grow lots of roots. However, the reason that they're growing lots of roots is that the high P levels inhibit the formation of mycorrhizae, forcing the plant to redirect its efforts from leaf production to root production instead. It doesn't matter what brand your P is, whether it's from manure or bonemeal or phostrogen!

Cutting out phosphorous is not a good idea, plants need it, purple tomato leaves is a sign of P deficiency, usually cold roots. The point of the Chalker-Scott article is that unless you have a soil problem, adding extra phosphorous on its own is not beneficial and may in fact be detrimental if your plants are not taking it out of the soil and it's therefore building up.

Now, fish blood and bone is around 6-6-6 (NPK) which makes it a great balanced fertiliser. I often use it as a base, if I mix it 50:50 with bloodmeal (10-0-0) for example, then I have 8-3-3.

EDIT: Might not be fair so say the article is "really very poorly written", what I meant was that it seems to fail to make its point clear to most people.

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Yorkshire Kris
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Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by Yorkshire Kris » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:54 pm

Vagetarian wrote:The article that DIm linked is really very poorly written. If you look closely you'll see that it's talking about gardeners who walk around throwing pure bonemeal (high in phosphorous) everywhere. It's got as much to do with fish blood and bone as it has to do with every other balanced compound fertiliser in the world.

People always used to think that phosphorous was 'for roots' because if you give plants lots of P, they grow lots of roots. However, the reason that they're growing lots of roots is that the high P levels inhibit the formation of mycorrhizae, forcing the plant to redirect its efforts from leaf production to root production instead. It doesn't matter what brand your P is, whether it's from manure or bonemeal or phostrogen!

Cutting out phosphorous is not a good idea, plants need it, purple tomato leaves is a sign of P deficiency, usually cold roots. The point of the Chalker-Scott article is that unless you have a soil problem, adding extra phosphorous on its own is not beneficial and may in fact be detrimental if your plants are not taking it out of the soil and it's therefore building up.

Now, fish blood and bone is around 6-6-6 (NPK) which makes it a great balanced fertiliser. I often use it as a base, if I mix it 50:50 with bloodmeal (10-0-0) for example, then I have 8-3-3.

EDIT: Might not be fair so say the article is "really very poorly written", what I meant was that it seems to fail to make its point clear to most people.
icon_salut

Thanks for clarifying this.

Tom2006
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Re: is there such a product as Fish & blood?

Post by Tom2006 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:23 pm

Yes thank you for that. icon_salut
Most wanted list - Any Young Trachycarpus and/or fern.

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