Succulent Hardiness Experiment: Update

[Alexander]

Steve,

I have seen that Agave atrovirens in the wild, the seeds I collected at about 2500 meter in Mexico in Puebla state. But that area lays at 18 degree latitude north. So maybe its hardier then A. americana its not winterhardy! I keep them frostfree here. Much to rare to risk them in the winter! I would plant it in the gardfemn if I had a garden somwhere in the Med close to the see. A. atrovirens is a good plant for Menton, Alicante or Lisbon. But the UK??? Maybe Tresco Abby.

From whom did you get your A. atrovirens from by the way?

Regards,

Alexander

I've had an agave atrovirens croak so far under the rain shelter I thought it was supposed to be one of the hardy ones oh well just opens up a new space for something else eh!
I also found my echeveria rosea looking a bit bedraggled,on closer look found the roots and stem had been eaten by vine weevil grubs ******* things,but again on the brightside I've now got 3 decent sized cuttings
A couple of the aeoniums under the rainshelter are looking a bit tired,but pretty confident they'll bounce back.

[Dave Brown]

hello everybody, this is my first time in the forum. with regards to the succulent experiment, 5 years ago i bought an variegated agave am., just a small one which i put in a terrecota pot. its spent every winter since outside, been covered in snow and ice (the pups/offsets were completely buried in snow for a week this year) and both parent plant and pups are thriving. i also have 3 yucca gloriosa variegata which have spent the last 2 winters outside with no problems.

Hi Graham, and welcome to the forum. Try putting a post on the new members topic, I don't think this topic has been looked at much this week The variegated Agave americana is supposed to be less hardy that the standard Blue one. So are you on the coast? what sort of temps do you get down to in winter? I think we had a more severe winter in the south this year That is why a lot are talking about croaking succulents, palms and the rest

I think the Yucca is pretty much hardy throughout most of the UK, someone correct me if I am wrong.

[MarkD]

Now that it's warming the real extent of the bad winter we've has reared it's ugly head

Anyway, here's my updated list of dead agaves and succulents, all planted/left outside under a rain shelter, 10" diameter and above

Agave scabra
Agave mitis
Agave montana
Agave gentryi
Agave ?atrovirens (which is possibly an obscura)

Aloe aristata
Aloe striatula
Aloe aristata x striatula
Aloe broomii
Aloe zebrina

Dyckia frigida

Hesperaloe parviflora

Puya berteroniana
Puya chilensis

Various opuntias

Severely damaged:
Agave americana marginata (small)
Agave neomexicana (small)
Agave weberi
Agave franzosinii

[tony]

Blimey Mark

thats bad luck . Im surprised you lost so much with a rain shelter. What temps did you suffer - I assume the shelter kept alot of the snow off?

[Mick C]

hello everybody, this is my first time in the forum. with regards to the succulent experiment, 5 years ago i bought an variegated agave am., just a small one which i put in a terrecota pot. its spent every winter since outside, been covered in snow and ice (the pups/offsets were completely buried in snow for a week this year) and both parent plant and pups are thriving. i also have 3 yucca gloriosa variegata which have spent the last 2 winters outside with no problems.

Hi Graham, welcome aboard. I have a couple of agave americanas which have just struggled through their first winter here - hopefully they will take note of the old saying that whatever doesn't kill you can only make you stronger! A small unprotected (and frankly mistreated) y gloriosa variegata seems happy enough.

Do you have any other exotic stuff or are you strictly a spikey lover?

[MarkD]

Hi Graham, welcome to the forum

Tony, our location belong to the ones that were badly affected by the nasty cold snaps with the winter that's just gone past and we lost LOADS of plants. It was very unusual from the winters we've had in our area and the North fared better than ours when it's usually the other way around. We had a couple of 7C's, a -8C followed by two days of continuous -4C's, and has been covered with snow for two weeks straight.

Yep, even the rain shelters couldn't do much for them I'm afraid.

Interesting to note that the agaves and aloes that died are the ones that are supposedly hardy. They probably are but not for us anyway, and I actually just put it down that I have bad clones of that 'hardy' lot.

I've got successes too so it's not all doom and gloom I'll list them when I get the chance.

[Frank]

and I actually just put it down that I have bad clones of that 'hardy' lot

If it makes you feel better Mark I actually think that certainly for the aloes we reached the max they can take. The only real gem in my collection is polyphylla, all three of mine came through with minor damage but covered. Striatula is another one, not covered and no damage. The rest, brevifolia, arborescens, marlothii, aristata and broomii are all wiped out or very badly damaged and they came through perfectly last year what was in hindsight a very mild winter. I suddenly seem to have loads of 'tree' aloes, long stems with tiny crowns
I took my rain cover off yesterday and see whether I can take a pic today of what's left in the dry bed, it looked rather barren by the time I had taken all the dead and hospital cases out.
Hey ho, I consoled myself with a couple of cheap cycads from Ikea yesterday to fill the gaps

[MarkD]

Hey ho, I consoled myself with a couple of cheap cycads from Ikea yesterday to fill the gaps

That's the spirit

I don't want to make conclusions just because some of these supposedly 'hardy' agaves croaked for me as some people have had success with them (like the Montana, Mitis, Gentryi, Scabra, etc.). That's why they were left outside (but protected) in the first place. I'm dissapointed but there you go. I'd probably replace the montana but not bother with the rest, they all look 'same-y' to me and space is becoming a premium.

Btw, I've put one of those cheap cycads from Ikea under the same rain shelter where the Montana and Gentryi croaked and it came through unflawed

[Frank]

Btw, I've put one of those cheap cycads from Ikea under the same rain shelter where the Montana and Gentryi croaked and it came through unflawed

I know , I left one from last year totally uncovered and apart from a little leaf burn it looks fine, hence I couldn't resist getting more as fillers .....

[Dave Brown]

This think we are suffering from the "What is the definition of hardy" syndrome again. If we think of the desert type areas that most of these plants come from, they may have extremely cold nights, but probably goes well above freezing during the day. I suspect it was the freezing days or week that saw these off. As a one in 20 winter, I would not hesitate restocking anything that has croaked, as it will hopefully be 2028 before we have another one like that.

[Melissa]

I have been supprised by the fact that the plants in our large planter, have come through winter very well. We had to leave it out as it was to heavy to move.

IMG_0120.JPG (159.58 KiB) Viewed 1954 times

This was it in it's prime last year, the smaller ones did get taken inside

IMG_0011.JPG (46.75 KiB) Viewed 1953 times

This is it today, the A, nobile was taken out before winter and is safe inside. The dead bits, top left are a couple of Aeoniums I put in there to see how they would do, and they didn't. I also thinned them out in the autumn, by top cutting a few, just in case.
So what was left in there is fine. E. black prince, E. pulidonis, E.agavoides, E.elegans, E. duchess of nurenberg and a couple of unknown ones.

IMG_0010.JPG (44.56 KiB) Viewed 1955 times

It has had a cover over it.

Melissa

[Alexander]

On www.coldhardy.com is a list of hardy stuff. Maybe some usefull Agaves there.
There are a lot of good bone hardy Opuntias to chose from. And they need cold winter weather to flower well!

Alexander

[Ali K]

Hi all

Here's a long list of the good (undamaged), the bad (damaged) and the ugly (dead stuff) in the Arid bed http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk/forum/v ... t=Arid+bed. It was only planted up in May last year and considering how bad winter has been I think we're lucky to have had so few losses. If we hadn't put a roof over the bed I don't think we would have any Agaves or Aloes left. Several Agaves have kept on growing through the winter which surprised me.

Aloe africana - dead
Aloe aristata - undamaged
Aloe broomii - undamaged
Aloe mitriformis - some damage
Aloe polyphylla - dead - my fault, was fine through Jan/Feb, watered it early March and it mushed.
Aloe pratensis - undamaged
Aloe reitzii - undamaged
Aloe speciosa - badly damaged but growing point OK
Aloe striatula - undamaged

Agave bracteosa - undamaged
Agave colorata - lower leaves spotted
Agave cupreata - lower leaves spotted
Agave filifera - undamaged
Agave geminiflora - dying, small plant, think it was dripped on from roof condensation
Agave gentryi - undamaged
Agave gigantensis - lower leaves spotted
Agave havardiana - undamaged
Agave heteracantha (xylonacantha) - undamaged
Agave horrida - dead
Agave hurteri - thought it was dead but growing point still alive at mo
Agave lopantha - undamaged
Agave mitis - some damage to lower leaves that had slug damage and some leaf whitening
Agave montana - undamaged
Agave neomexicana - undamaged
Agave nigra - undamaged
Agave ocahui - undamaged
Agave obscura var. Xalapensis - undamaged
Agave parryi - undamaged
Agave parryi couesii - undamaged
Agave parryi huachucensis - undamaged
Agave parassana - undamaged
Agave parasssana green form - undamaged
Agave stricta - undamaged
Agave stricta rubra - undamaged
Agave salmiana coarctata - undamaged
Agave salmiana ferox - lower leaves spotted
Agave weberi - undamaged

Beschorneria septentrionalis - undamaged
Beschorneria yuccoides - undamaged

Carpobrotus edulis ‘Gugh Dawn’ - looked dead but fully recovered
Cotyledon orbiculata - looked bad but recovering

Dasylirion glaucophyllum - undamaged
Dasylirion longissimum - undamaged
Dasylirion wheeleri - undamaged

Dyckia ‘Morris Hobbs’ - undamaged
Dyckia remotiflora - undamaged

Echeveria agavoides - undamaged
Echeveria ‘Black Prince’ - undamaged
Echeveria elegans (blue form) - undamaged
Echeveria elegans (green form) - undamaged
Echeveria glauca - undamaged
Echeveria rosea - undamaged
Echeveria secunda - undamaged

Fasicularia bicolor subsp. bicolor - undamaged
Fasicularia bicolor subsp. canaliculata - undamaged

Hechtia glomerata - dying
Nolina longifolium - undamaged
Nolina nelsonii - undamaged

Opuntia robusta - undamaged

Puya alpestris - undamaged
Puya berteroana - undamaged

Sempervivum virgil - undamaged

Yucca aloifolia - undamaged
Yucca aloifolia variegata - undamaged
Yucca elephantipes - some spotting
Yucca carnerosana - undamaged
Yucca linearifolia - undamaged
Yucca rostrata - undamaged

[Dave Brown]

Blimy Ali, that is a list and a half are they all under your industrial rain shelter.

Mine were either outside exposed and some didn't fare too well, outside partially sheltered and most were ok, others were under the covered bit with sliding doors but that still went down to -4C. The plants that were completely exposed got considerably more damage than those with taller shrubs nearby. I know the grass surface temp dropped to -9.4C so the gravel temp may have got down to -7 or -8C and the ground was frozen to 2 inches (5cm) Aloe aristata had the top rosettes mushed in exposed positions while the side rosettes were fine protected by the top ones. those near to other taller plants were undamaged. I'll have to do a list this week can never remember the names

[Ali K]

Hi Dave, yes all the plants on the list were under the open ended polytunnel. It has proved it's worth this year alone

I forgot to mention temperaturers in my post I can't be that accurate I'm afraid as the digital sensor is in a plastic container and was laying on the soil in the raised (2ft) bed. It measured a low of -7.1ºC but I think it may have been slightly higher than that in reality, a max min thermometer further down the garden measured -6.5ºC. I didn't have a thermometer under the polytunnel

I only had a few spikies out in the rest of the garden and they took considerable damage, Agaves chrysantha, palmeri and salmiana but they were all in tiny plastic pots. Some opuntias also mushed but one surprise was a small Puya alpestris in a tiny plastic pot by the greenhouse which remains undamaged.

I know what you mean about remembering names, I took a photo after we'd planted up the bed and wrote all the names down ontop of it, it made it a lot easier to do the above list