Phoenix canariensis_CIDP Blowover Repair

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davidjonesUK
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Re: Phoenix canariensis_CIDP Blowover Repair

Post by davidjonesUK » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:20 am

kentgardener, were about was that large Phoenix canariensis_CIDP must have a good root system to stand that amount of wind :lol: :lol:
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Dave Brown
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Re: Phoenix canariensis_CIDP Blowover Repair

Post by Dave Brown » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:10 pm

At a guess I'd say Madeira David.

The ones at Southsea have fronds snapped by the gales, and no rocking, but they were planted small. As I have said before the best root system a Phoenix palm can have is to germinate in the soil where it will grow, as nature intended. Once it is root bound in a pot the roots have more of a problem getting out into the surrounding soil, which may affect anchorage.

My theory is that a palm grown in the ground from day one will grow roots straight down as a survival strategy agaist surface drought. By the time the palm is big enought to be caught by the wind there may be 20 roots fanned out below the palm to a depth of 1m or more. The same age palm in a pot will have similar roots but coiled around the pot. If you just plant the palm the root tips from the coils will start to grow into the surrounding soil. What you have is a root ball with virtually no anchorage with a wind blwn top..... equals rock Also any new roots may push against the rootball lifting the palm, by uncoiling those original roots.

In the past I have cut the root ball with a saw getting rid of the coiled roots. This encourages new roots to go straight into the soil from the base of the palm.

Another one of my hair brain theories, but seems to stack up for me. :wink:
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Doug-Tews
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Re: Phoenix canariensis_CIDP Blowover Repair

Post by Doug-Tews » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:26 am

Dave Brown wrote:The ones at Southsea have fronds snapped by the gales, and no rocking, but they were planted small...
My theory is that a palm grown in the ground from day one will grow roots straight down as a survival strategy agaist surface drought. By the time the palm is big enought to be caught by the wind there may be 20 roots fanned out below the palm to a depth of 1m or more...
The interesting thing is, mine was planted small and still blew over after it's first season. It was a B&Q plant, none of which are very big. However, it was one of those tall, reaching palms that was too tall for it's root size. This happens when many plants are heavily crowded together at the nursery. Therefore, the wind caught it about 6 months after planting and blew it loose. It was really rocking about. I straightened it and rigidly tied it up for the winter months. By the following summer it seemed quite stable, and newer, shorter stockier fronds started coming out. However, as it continued to grow, I could still see a little movement in heavy winds and was suspicious it would not survive a really big blow. (Unfortunately, I was proven right.)

My examination after this event suggests your original thoughts were correct: The palm was planted too shallow and as it grew, there was an air gap around the outer bottom of the trunk allowing a rocking motion. (That bulbous, rounded shape can be seen in the close up pic before the soil was raised.) Roots could go straight down, but not out. Hopefully the problem is now solved.


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Re: Phoenix canariensis_CIDP Blowover Repair

Post by Dave Brown » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:47 am

Another problem with mass produced (cheap Palms) may be the emphasis is on top growth, so the feed given may be aimed at what you can see, rather than what you can't :wink:
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dyls
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Re: Phoenix canariensis_CIDP Blowover Repair

Post by dyls » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:08 pm

When buying palms at B&Q, I try to go for the small and bushy rather than large and stretched. Wind resistance is very important here! The cheap small ones tend to be bushy, it's the bigger ones that look rather stretched. (My £3 CIDPs have now grown to about the size of the ones going for £20 at B&Q, and they have twice as many fronds, with about twice as many leaflets per frond).

On the subject of CIDPs and root growth, they are quite curious plants. Most of my palms start to grow new fronds from about early April until late September, but CIDPs do nothing until the end of August, then put on a brief spurt that goes on till early November. Presumably, from April until August all the action is happening underground.


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Adrian
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Re: Phoenix canariensis_CIDP Blowover Repair

Post by Adrian » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:11 pm

Maybe yours dont Dyls but most certainly do, most of the fully damaged cidps around here had half decent crowns by august.
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Re: Phoenix canariensis_CIDP Blowover Repair

Post by billdango » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:41 pm

Is that Phoenix canariensis_CIDP still growing after the last few bad winters?
I would love to know.
rgds billdango. :D :D :D :D :D


Doug-Tews
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Re: Phoenix canariensis_CIDP Blowover Repair

Post by Doug-Tews » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:30 pm

billdango wrote:Is that Phoenix canariensis_CIDP still growing after the last few bad winters?
I would love to know.
rgds billdango. :D :D :D :D :D
:roll: Sorry to say, no it's gone. It was still alive, but looked so shabby for the last two years my landlord said enough was enough. It was just too ugly a thing sitting out in the middle of the front yard. So with considerable sadness, I dug it out and discarded it. :roll: The area has been replanted with grass. (All is not lost however. I still have a Butia eriospatha in the front yard that shrugged off all that terrible weather with little noticeable effect.) icon_cheers

I might say however, that most Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's here on the Isle of Wight actually fared quite well, even real small ones. Although the undercliff area where I live is reputed to be exceptionally mild, I live near the top of the cliffs and am very exposed to the winds. That really makes a difference. Down below me in the botanical gardens, most of the Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's look really nice, as well as those I've seen along the east coastal areas from Ventnor up through Ryde. After the ravages of the last several winters, I think it can be said Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's are truly hardy in those areas.


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billdango
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Re: Phoenix canariensis_CIDP Blowover Repair

Post by billdango » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:44 pm

Thanks for your reply ,sad to hear it is gone so i hope your butia does okay ?.
rgds billdango. icon_thumleft icon_thumleft icon_thumleft icon_thumleft icon_thumleft


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