washingtonia .F. dying!!?

sam140

Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by sam140 »

Dave I am not saying it won't be ok in clay but you are in kent which is much drier than bristol.

Also you may also have a higher water table. Neither do I know your localised conditions.

I am not talking about super drainage axel the key is the plant is well drained enough according to your area and conditions.
Axel

Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by Axel »

Ok Sam, no super drainage then, you wrote sharp drainage and i don't agree with that either. These washingtonia's dont die from drainage, they die from cold.

Besides, we are talking about washingtonia filifera but there are only a handful of filifera's in the UK that i have seen pictures of. The rest are crosses but most likely Robusta.
Last edited by Axel on Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jellybob

Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by Jellybob »

All my washingtonia are now showing damage, but it varies greatly from plant to plant. For example, the oldest one, still small looks fine, just the fronds that hang out of the rain cover are fried. One I planted last June, a bit bigger than the one just mentioned looks awful, and I am fully expecting it to die. One thing I have noted is that during the snow and ice I was surprised how green everything was. Now, after the thaw lots of things are going crispy. My Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's have the outer fronds drying up. But looking within the crown all looks green and fine. These to have been protected from rain. One other plant, P tvt looks okay other than the fronds that had fleece on them to stop the snow. These fronds are now brown, but ones that didn't touch fleece are good. No more fleece for this one. I do hope things improve because I am to poor to buy all new stuff!
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Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by redsquirrel »

i dont think the drainage is an issue either,not on one as big as mine or Daves. last winter the tree got badly burned in a short 2 night -9 spell. temps recovered significantly during the day.this year,more -9's,(nearly 10) but days as low as -5 aswell.
previous years had been very wet,i dont think we actually had a frost to speak of in 2007/8 and the year before was very mild also but both very wet too.these years never marked the palm at all which is why we liked it so much. now its a different story,the thing looks awful and if it recovers,will look awful again next time we have a bad one.
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Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by Dave Brown »

With drainage you have to look at the general soil rather than the small hole you planted it in. I can make models with the soil here and the Romans made pots and tiles about 1/4 of a mile away. From what I have found, not specifically Washingtonia, palm roots spread well beyond the spread of the leaves, so unless you dig a 15ft diameter hole your palm will actually be rooted mostly into the general soil.

My soil conditions are exactly what the traditional books say you must not have..... a heavy compacted wet clay which floods in heavy rain, during the winter, and a bone dry dusty soil during the summer. :roll:

The other point is in these cold winters the air stream is predominantly easterly, and in these conditions the east gets more rain than the west, which is why the west suffers more frost. Last winter from Dec to Feb I had 130% of normal rainfall. This winter is looking like a repeat. :wink:
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Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by redsquirrel »

i have 18 inches of top soil then builders rubble then clay underneath that,i dug out as much as i could reach but i suppose in effect it is like being in a clay pot now down there.
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metalhammer

Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by metalhammer »

Better off building raised beds if your on clay,digging a planting 'hole' just creates a sump for the plant to drown in.A raised bed,say 18-24" deep will allow root development & the soil won't become waterlogged.Some palms,most Trachycarpus & Phoenix canariensis_CIDP have a sufficently robust root system to deal with clay,especially if you raise the plant initally above the clay.

Masses of organic matter & coarse grit or even small gravel will help.There are various clay buster products available,Gypsum is the old favorite,but there are newer products around.The whole point is to get the soil grains to bind together into small clumps,this doesn't happen naturally in clay,hence the soil becomes a solid,impenetrable mass.Mulching with a thick layer of compost,manure or composted waste available from municipal recycling centres & allowing the worms to take it into the soil all helps.




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Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by Dave Brown »

I read what you are saying metalhammer, but my point is I did none of that and the Washingtonia is fine. Although many palms will not like sitting in water, the adding of loads of grit I'm not to sure about. I have done it when planting things, but I'm not sure about it. You could just end up with dry conditions in summer which will stop growth. :roll:

I think we have a one size fits all approach in the UK but the rainfall levels, temperatures etc are markedly different from north to south and east to west. :wink:
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metalhammer

Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by metalhammer »

l have the opposite problem,my soil is very free draining,so can get very dry in summer.My soil can literally be under water & within 3 to 4 days will be workable again.Grit & organic matter are usually considered to be the best way of improving clay soils,but it would need to be done over the whole area,not just in pockets,or you are only going to create bigger sumps.





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Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by redsquirrel »

is there anything in property regulations saying you cant raise your whole garden? that would let it all drain down into next doors :wink: :wink:
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Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by Arlon Tishmarsh »

Hi Darren,
to raise your overall garden soil level you do need planning permission, not for an inch or two obviously, also the requirement would be on that person to retain the new level of soil at the boundary otherwise it could impact on neighbouring properties who would then have legal recourse against you.
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Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by redsquirrel »

thanks arlon,it would be nice to level our back garden as it slopes down quite a bit.this was the reason i planted the washy at the top but forgot that the gardens above drain through ours.the poor sods at the bottom end up with a boggy mess every year,they have had to deck out most of it to keep the house clean from the kids and dog in and out
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metalhammer

Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by metalhammer »

Just watch out you don't go above the damp course.


l can remember some years back seeing somebody on the old PC forum,& they had banked up soil about 2' above the damp course,they was going to have problems.





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Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by Arlon Tishmarsh »

Raising soil levels also leads to problems such as overlooking your neighbours. As it stands you are allowed to erect a fence / wall to a height of 2m above "original" soil levels,without the need for planning permission. If you erect a fence / wall 2m above raised soil level, that would require planning permission for soil levels and a 2m plus fence which requires plans / drawings etc etc etc to accompany your application.
metalhammer

Re: washingtonia .F. dieing!!?

Post by metalhammer »

l wanted to increase my fence height from 6' to 10' to stop the stone throwers,but it will cost me £160 to apply for planning permission to erect it.




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