What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

nicebutdim
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What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by nicebutdim » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:11 am

Early this year I bought what I thought were the Abyssinian banana ..ensete ventricosum,they turn out to be a slender version of this plant and apparently is called green stripe,this also doesn't have the red stripe.This is nowhere near the size of the huge paddles of the Abyssinian.I have had a number of these over the years,my first one was bought in 1970 in a test tube and eventually grew immense.Does anyone know the proper current name of the Abyssinian banana as the term ventricosum seems to be loosely applied to a lot of bananas.I have a problem in overwintering them as they seem to survive until March or April but then go downhill.I would like to hear if anyone has any more info on this plant.

stephenprudence

Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by stephenprudence » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:15 am

Musa ensete (ventricosum)

Renae

Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by Renae » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:35 pm

I thought Musa and Ensete were separate.. My plant is Ensete Ventricosum
( red stipe).. Hope it does well for you..Mines in flower but the growth has slowed or stopped... Grrrr :?

stephenprudence

Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by stephenprudence » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:36 pm

Oh yes, a force of habit there it is Ensete ventrocosum.

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Dave Brown
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Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by Dave Brown » Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:01 pm

I'm not a botanic person, but have read a lot about the Ensete ventricosum tribe :wink:

I started growing these from seed in the late 1970s and at that time they were called Musa ensete, they were later reclassified as it's own family Ensete. There are several species, ventricosum generally being the most common.

The wild form is the green one grown from seed and this has a red midrib and leafbase. It can reach huge proportions with a height of up to 12m. I don't know how Res stripe fits in but I always thought of it as a marketing ploy to sell E. ventricosum seed. The green form is the least hardy of the ventricosum tribe, and the cultivars have been bred over centuries by Ethiopian farmers to allow cropping higher up into the mountains. There are about 60 or so cultivars of which Maurelii and Montbeliardii are two European named ones. These are more hardy but cannot grow true from seed.

In recent times TC has been the preferred method of propagation for wholesalers, and I suspect that TC has led to most of the ventricosum sold as plants being short and squat. Mine bought this year is very much more squat than most of the seed grown ones I have had in the past.

It seems that there is a wide variation in the wild form or they would not have been able to produce so many cultivars

This was one of the last seed grown ones I grew, and this was a very compact one, and far easier to overwinter.
270808 Pics 032.jpg
To be quite honest I do not think Ensete are overwinterable outside in the UK apart from very sheltered locations in the mildest winters, and then we are talking about Maurelii and Montbeliardii, not the green form which needs a minimum of 5C. It may look like it has survived but the roots and corm will have rotted, so as soon as warm enough to grow it will rot off. :roll:
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Dave
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Renae

Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by Renae » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:35 pm

Dave.. could that be what's happened to mine.. :?:
I have around 6 row's of Nana's half developed and for the last month.. nothing... like it's frozen..The flower is not doing anything. Do you think it's rot? Hope not :(

nicebutdim
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Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by nicebutdim » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:24 pm

Just to make a confusing situation worse,these are types of ventricosum being sold:
Ensete ventricosum 'Atropurpureum'
Ensete ventricosum 'Green Stripe'
Ensete ventricosum 'Maurelii'
Ensete ventricosum 'Montbeliardii'
Ensete ventricosum 'Tandarra Red'
Ensete ventricosum 'Red Stripe'
Ensete ventricosum 'Rubra'

I just want a common or garden ensete vent that grows huge and is not hardy and needs winter coddling.Not just protection

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Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by Dave Brown » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:08 pm

nicebutdim wrote:Just to make a confusing situation worse,these are types of ventricosum being sold:
Ensete ventricosum 'Atropurpureum'
Ensete ventricosum 'Green Stripe'
Ensete ventricosum 'Maurelii'
Ensete ventricosum 'Montbeliardii'
Ensete ventricosum 'Tandarra Red'
Ensete ventricosum 'Red Stripe'
Ensete ventricosum 'Rubra'

I just want a common or garden ensete vent that grows huge and is not hardy and needs winter coddling.Not just protection
I've been researching this over the last couple of days and your best bet NBD is to buy seed, as the seed is the wild form. However it is stated in many of the university papers that Ensete ventricosum is an extremely variable species. Follow THIS LINK to see the official word on the names, but basically

Ensete ventricosum 'Atropurpureum' = Maurelii
Ensete ventricosum 'Green Stripe' = Wild form
Ensete ventricosum 'Maurelii' = Maurelii
Ensete ventricosum 'Montbeliardii' = Montbeliardii
Ensete ventricosum 'Tandarra Red' = Maurelii
Ensete ventricosum 'Red Stripe' = Wild form
Ensete ventricosum 'Rubra' = Maurelii
Best regards
Dave
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nicebutdim
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Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by nicebutdim » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:19 pm

Thanks for that info Dave,I seem to have what I have been after ,after all, though without the red stripe.I have grown these from seed years ago and kept one so long it flowered.I thought by buying seed again I may end up with what are now being sold,being all sorts.If the green stripe is the wild form then that is what I originally wanted though the two I have are nowhere near as vigorous as the ones previously grown.

SteveW

Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by SteveW » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:10 pm

Just to confuse matters a wee bit,I'll be selling some EV hiniba either later this year or early next spring depending on how quickly they develop
It was looking likely that I'd be able to offer some montbelliardiis too,but the corms rotted and took the pups with it :evil:

grub

Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by grub » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:54 pm

Post me a couple of Hiniba's next April please Steve icon_thumright
:lol: What else you got? :DD

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Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by redsquirrel » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:59 pm

is hiniba the koba koba exclusive one? if so i will have one too please steve.lost mine a couple of years ago
mars ROVER broken down. headgasket faillure

SteveW

Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by SteveW » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:27 pm

redsquirrel wrote:is hiniba the koba koba exclusive one? if so i will have one too please steve.lost mine a couple of years ago
Sure is mate
I'll let everyone know when they're ready,there's quite a list already 8)
grub wrote:Post me a couple of Hiniba's next April please Steve icon_thumright
:lol: What else you got? :DD
Think your names already down for a couple mate icon_thumleft
Also got some manihots,colocasia gigantea,pink china even the odd formosana at a push,not to mention gaoligonensis
There might even be a hybrid between pink china and gaoligonensis next year if the seeds ripen before the frosts hit them :D

Eddy

Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by Eddy » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:25 pm

Ill be interested in a couple of colocasia's (gigantea and pink china) when they are ready.(PM me the price) And a hybrid between pink china and gaoligonensis, sounds very interesting. I'll be watching this thread like a hawk. :DD Hope they're successful for you steve. icon_thumright

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Re: What is the name of the Abyssinian banana?

Post by Dave Brown » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:29 pm

Shame about the 'Montbeliardii' Steve, and a bit worrying, as I believe Mark Hall also tried and failed. Any idea why it rotted :?:

Put me down for an Hiniba if you have any left. :wink:

According to Roger Blench, Cambridge Enset culture and its history in highland Ethiopia
koba
This root is found as a Wanderwort in major languages such as Amharic and Oromo and it seems likely it is somehow connected with the widespread African forms -gomba or -komba (Rossel 1998). Shack (1966) notes that Gurage (h)ensat is the name for the root (corm) of koba. As the corm is the useful part of cultivated enset, koba may originally have been the term for the plant itself.
Best regards
Dave
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