Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

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Mick C
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Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by Mick C »

It's OK now Frank. I've got a bag of grit from B&Q.
turtile

Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by turtile »

You should use very little gravel in the mix. Gravel should be placed on top. I use 1 part manure/humus, 1 perlite, and 3 native soil (sand & clay) with a little lime to raise the ph - manure/humus is too acidic for most.

Low nitrogen fertilizer with high phosphorus and potassium content should be used for cactus. Cactus also grow better with more micronutrients such as magnesium, iron, zinc...

If you use too much nitrogen, cactus become extended and weak but many succulents need a higher amount of nitrogen.

Only water when the soil dries out. Never water when its still moist.
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Dave Brown
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Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by Dave Brown »

Coldish in Deleware then turtile :roll: I have a problem where if I mix 50% sand and 50% soil it does not drain as well as the soil on its own. can anyone explain why?
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turtile

Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by turtile »

Dave Brown wrote:Coldish in Deleware then turtile :roll: I have a problem where if I mix 50% sand and 50% soil it does not drain as well as the soil on its own. can anyone explain why?
Sand actually binds with clay particles so it actually prevents drainage (like concrete).

The soil at my house is hardpan (clay and sand). When the land was developed, they took away the top soil. Its so hard that I can jump up and down on a shovel and it will barely penetrate into the ground. The sod that the builder used couldn't take root.

The best way to increase drainage is to use organic material. I've found that perlite works very well even in hardpan to increase aeration.

Lime and Gypsum (calcium sulfate) can help loosen the soil but lime can't always be used since it will raise the ph too high.
Andy J

Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by Andy J »

Dave, i have found the same with sand,that it does indeed impair drainage. This is why i use horticultural grit in my mixes. Perlite is fine but grit is cheaper and if you are filling large pots the cost factor can sway it for me,i just need help to move the pots then!
palmking

Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by palmking »

I dig down to at least 2 foot below the top soil and remove all the clay and replace with a lining of stones, then a mixture of John Innes no 2(with Horticultutal Limestone grit) , Cacti compost and a little horticultural Sharp sand, with a gravel lining on top. Same result as a raised bed.

Drainage is excellent in my bed but there again it is helped by a conifer overhanging the first foot or so of it!!!!
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Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by Dave Brown »

Well, I went for it. Dug out about 18ins (45cm) of clay, put 6in (15cm) of coarse pea gravel, then 12in (30cm) of 20mm ballast topped off with gravel.

Most of my bought in Cacti were in peat based compost so I removed as much as I could possibly get off and planted out. Even those that are not hardy, like Golden Barrel were planted out this way as I will dig out and pot up in the ballast in October. This should mean they will over winter better.

This is the finished bed in early July
050709  Arid Bed.jpg
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Nick

Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by Nick »

Dave for my raised bed that had all my succulents and plants from around OZ was
1 x 100Ltr bale of Irish moss peat, to that I added two buckets of grit-sand, then mixed all of that together, then to that I added two buckets of 6mm small shingle and then mixed it all together really well, I had to do that 10 times to fill my raised bed.
Now when I water the water just disappears strait through it, but with the peat it meant that last winter it was to wet for my liking, But now with insight I would have used 50ltrs of peat 4 buckets of grit-sand and 4 buckets if 6mm shingle and with hind sight I would have also added road chipping size stone into it as well.
Now with watering plants in that mix, I need to have the hose turned right down because if you have it to high it will simply blast a hole in the medium, which makes watering the raised bed very slow, but in dry weather it soon drys out which is good but it is a shame it stays so wet in winter when I wonted it dryer, all seems to grow ell in it but not as good as it would if it was planted in the same mix but instead of peat I wish I had used Potting or tree and shrub compost. It's great when it comes to digging holes for planting plants as it's so soft even tho I compressed it down when filling the bed up, Bodster said I should not have compacted it like I did, but it was to late it was already done. I don't know if this was what you were after or not, but thought I would tell you about my mix for a dry bed, shame I did not consider what it would be like in the winter, o well we live and learn by our mistakes don't we, but I know what I would do differently if I needed to make a free drainage mix again.

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Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by Dave Brown »

Nick, I have not used any peat at all, as you don't get peat in a desert. I know many Nurseries pot up Cacti and succulents in peat, but the idea is to to keep them completely dry over winter. Outside, if you don't have a rain shelter you cannot stop rain making the ground wet, and peat retains moisture rather than shedding it. Mixing gravel with peat does not make the peat less moisture retentive, you only reduce the volume of it. I would say only use loam with loads of additional drainage for cacti and succulents if you are to overwinter them outside :wink:
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Nick

Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by Nick »

Your right Dave but with hindsight I would have know that, but still not a bad attempt tho, even if I got it wrong :(

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Bob

Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by Bob »

Dave Brown wrote:Coldish in Deleware then turtile :roll: I have a problem where if I mix 50% sand and 50% soil it does not drain as well as the soil on its own. can anyone explain why?
You should use sharp sand Dave, not the powdery builders general pupose sand used for mortar mixes.
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Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by Dave Brown »

Bob wrote:
Dave Brown wrote:Coldish in Deleware then turtile :roll: I have a problem where if I mix 50% sand and 50% soil it does not drain as well as the soil on its own. can anyone explain why?
You should use sharp sand Dave, not the powdery builders general pupose sand used for mortar mixes.
It was sharp sand Bob, with tiny bits of shell in it, but the clay is so fine it seems to coat the sand and settles into any drainage holes and when dry is sets like concrete. That is why I have given up trying to remedy it, and just resorted to digging it out and taking it to the dump. :roll:
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Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by jason5 »

Dave Brown wrote:Well, I went for it. Dug out about 18ins (45cm) of clay, put 6in (15cm) of coarse pea gravel, then 12in (30cm) of 20mm ballast topped off with gravel.

Most of my bought in Cacti were in peat based compost so I removed as much as I could possibly get off and planted out. Even those that are not hardy, like Golden Barrel were planted out this way as I will dig out and pot up in the ballast in October. This should mean they will over winter better.

This is the finished bed in early July
050709 Arid Bed.jpg
Hi Dave,,,,,your garden looks brill mate.
I was thinking of making a arid bed for such plants as yours in the photo,,,my garden has no clay at all and is just nice topsoil for a good 3ft deep and then i hit a sandy type of soil with loads of stones in it , what should i do then dig out the topsoil and replace it with ballast and gravel mixing in some topsoil?
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Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by Dave Brown »

I had to dig mine out as it was not going to drain even if improved. If your soil drains fairly well you may not need to dig it all out, just add gravel and grit to the lower level, with mainly ballast, grit, gravel on the top foot or so. A lot of people build a raised bed using sleepers or rocks etc. I just mounded up the ballast mix, planted up and and then pushed rocks into it, as on the right of the pic, to make it look natural and stop the mix washing away. :wink:
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Re: Arid, Succulent, and Cacti compost. What do you win with?

Post by redsquirrel »

the best arid bed ive seen has to be gary wattons,the plants were in excellent condition.the surprise factor was it was all grown in 100% granite chippings.no compost at all
mars ROVER broken down. headgasket faillure
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