In this country? Washingtonia

[Nathan]

I do sound bitter, it's no fun losing one as I did last year I'm more mad than bitter tbh,
I hope the handful in London the south coast and yours do well Dave. absolutely!

That 30+ ft'er snuffing it, in the Scilly Isles is completely depressing. Robusta as well, apparently?

No, it wasn't a 'robusta', they just had doubts about what it actually was, it was probably planted decades ago when they were not available in the UK & very little was known about them...

Tresco had all sorts of mature palms killed in the winter of 1987. Fruiting Rhopalostylis sapida (though some self sown seedlings survived & are now of trunking size again), Livistona australis & Archontophoenix cunninghamiana...

But that was in the coldest winter ever recorded there! Who knows if it will ever get that cold there again? Even in the last few cold winters it never even got close to that cold...

I'm not sure what the actual point to your thread is? I mean even Trachycarpus fortunei could be classed as "close to extinction" if the winter got cold enough...

[Dave Brown]

maybe the 'site' should be called 'Hardy Tropicals South East coast' then
cos washy's only have a tiny chance of survival in that tiny area - and this winter may get them

You are sounding very bitter here. We have never said everyone will be able to grow everything.

In milder winter areas, with good microclimate, and in harsh winters with some effort on the part of the gardener, some will survive.

I do sound bitter, it's no fun losing one as I did last year I'm more mad than bitter tbh,
I hope the handful in London the south coast and yours do well Dave. absolutely!

That 30+ ft'er snuffing it, in the Scilly Isles is completely depressing. Robusta as well, apparently?

Washingtonia fiflifera is completely out of it's comfort zone, where as Washingtonia robusta is on it's limit in drier areas. As I said Scilly ilses tick the temps box, definately not the humidity box for either.

[JakoMonster]

So Washingtonia can grow here and survive but mainly in mild Coastal places in the south.
I don't like Filefera i prefer Robustas i like the skinny trunks.

[Rob S]

This Washingtonia had been here on the North side of the Thames Estuary for many years, never protected and was doing well but last winter finished it off, just the trunk there now, such a shame;

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=burgess ... 2,23.61,,0,




Likewise this one which was a few miles across the river;

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=canvey+ ... 97.53,,0,0


And another close by, probably the largest, also gone i believe;

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=canvey+ ... ,5.96&z=19

Finally this pair, the image is three years old and they were much bigger, gone;

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=canvey+ ... ,3.17&z=19

[Dave Brown]

As I said they are on their limit here, and in Dec 2010 conditions they may have needed some assistance. Just left to get on with it you may lose them once in 30 years or so. The bigger mine gets, the more effort I'm putting into ensuring it's survival.

I have 7m ladders. and the parasol is lashed to the trunk so will go up with it.. Protecting the growth point is the most important bit, the trunk being pretty tough.

[Si]

That's some grim list of dead washies from the south east - Essex, Canvey etc.
Hope the last two winters were blips.
Updated pics of 'Barries' palm And the Chelsea Phisic park one
Would prove otherwise, they won't have been protected over the last two years,
this will give us a truer picture

[Nathan]

Si do you not read what is written? The one in Chelsea was photographed in spring 2011 AFTER all the recent cold winters. As you can see it had just cosmetic damage to some of its fronds. Last winter was mild for the most part with a week long cold snap in February & most places got nowhere near as cold as the last few winter minimums...

I have seen an updated photo of Barrys's palm & that too is fine, again with just some cosmetic damage to the fronds...

Also mine is fine, completely unprotected its whole life.

So once again I fail to see what point you are trying to make? Washingtonia have never been considered hardy in the UK & no one has ever said they have a long term future away from the mildest areas...

[Nathan]

Here are a couple of more recent pics of Barry's Washingtonia in Edmonton, north London...

First one from October 2011 & second from May this year, so it gives you an idea of how good a recovery they make, replacing damaged fronds from winter damage...

Don't forget the bigger they get the hardier they become too...

[Adrian]

Alan and Lorella's pair in their front garden are apparently doing very well, I havent seen them for a year or so but Lorella mentioned them on the EPS, there wont be anything outside much bigger in this country Im sure

[Si]

Nathan, My point? The plant isn't hardy, at all, Im glad some trees got through 2010 AND 2011, the last two winters were obviously blips, it's nice to be wrong in this case and see Barrie's palm hanging in there
Onwards and upwards with the survivors

[Adrian]

Nathan's right, Washingtonia never has been thought of as UK hardy, never will be either.
On the edge of extinction suggests they were established here in the first place.
Sure there are some around but they are either in very favoured locations with idea micro climates or they are protected and well looked after.
I managed one from seed to a 5 foot trunk out in the garden but I never considered it hardy and knew it was a matter of time before it was killed off.

[Nathan]

Nathan, My point? The plant isn't hardy, at all, Im glad some trees got through 2010 AND 2011, the last two winters were obviously blips, it's nice to be wrong in this case and see Barrie's palm hanging in there
Onwards and upwards with the survivors

But no one ever said they WERE hardy!

Most of us grow stuff that isn't hardy in our gardens, I bet even you... Should we not bother & stick to growing roses?

I still believe though that in the right micro-climate Washingtonia robusta at least could be considered "long term"

[Daniel]

When I went to Tresco a couple of years ago I'm pretty sure that the Washingtonia mentioned in this thread above is alive and well. It is a very scrappy looking thing at the top, and you could be mistaken for thinking it is a very wind beaten Trachycarpus, but it is far to tall to be a Trachycarpus. I know Trachys can get tall but this palm is in another league.

Our palm collections would be pretty dull if all we stuck to was dead cert hardy palms. It would be Trachys only. During the Winter of 2010 I lost a biggish Jubaea and a couple of mature Butias, both of which you would assume are hardier than a Washingtonia. But you have to learn from your mistakes and if we get another 'Narnia' event I will protect even these species because I know that in the vast majority of winters I won't have to protect them at all in my location.

After the big losses of that Winter I took over a year to take stock of the situation and am planning to re-plant the gaps in my garden with palms, but I will be making sure that I have the infrastructure in place such as electrical sockets close to any palm that may need a bit of help to get through a nasty cold period.

Si I'm sorry to hear that you lost your Washingtonia. But every experience good or bad should be seen as a lesson and I'm sure you can grow an even better palm in that part of your garden having gone through the pain of losing a palm that was close to your heart

[Dave Brown]

Basically Daniel, you have encapsulated what exotic gardening is all about You push boundaries, and sometimes they are pushed back but if you are really determined, it is possible to win.

The extra protection required in the 1 in 30, or 1 in 100 years, is what makes us different form the Victorians, as we have vastly different protection methods available

[Rod]

The one at Chelsea Physic Garden was planted out small & the photo at the top of the thread was from April 2011...

Barry's specimen is actually bigger than this one too...

Barry's Palm looks like a W. filifera ( The petioles are very long & the crown is open )
R. robusta has shorter petioles and a much denser crown ( Just my thoughts )

Even here in Christchurch New Zealand it is only regarded as HALF-HARDY, but that all depends on where you live in Christchurch. We have quite a bit of variation in temps here. One side of our city can grow R.sapida where the other side cannot.
My Washies here in my garden get frost damage nearly every year, but it grows out in one season. An excellent trait of this palm. If it was a slow grower i would not have bothered growing them at all.