In this country? Washingtonia

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Si
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by Si » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:37 pm

Daniel wrote:Si I'm sorry to hear that you lost your Washingtonia. But every experience good or bad should be seen as a lesson and I'm sure you can grow an even better palm in that part of your garden having gone through the pain of losing a palm that was close to your heart :D
Thanks for the constructive advice Daniel, alas, I honestly think that they won't get through a northern English winter.
It's nice to see some getting through the last two horrible winters.

The furthest north I could see them surviving outside, unprotected (naturally) would be - coastal North wales, gulf stream, Llewellyn peninsular, there's some nice palms in Abersoch and Nefyn, think the washys may be a pot plant here though :(
I've got a washy to replace the dead one (in a pot, and it will stay there (brought in over-winter) 'till it's big and I've weighed up the next 2 winters)

The plug sockets for light heating in the garden is a good call, I'm surprised no one on here hasn't invented/marketed a protective coating with umbrella hood and light heating for the worst times, (Dave) :? would B&Q stock it though? enough folk buy cordylines only to have them wiped out, so, I'm sure they'd stump up the cash to protect those beloved trees.

A predictable but hardy Trachycarpus, will have to replace the space the washy left in the garden for now.
Mancunia humedad cálida y de alta


greendragon
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by greendragon » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:49 am

Im planting a washingtonia next year, just because it will be fun to try and keep it alive and the lows in my area were only around -10*c even in December 2010. When you plant something like a Phoenix canariensis_CIDP or a Washingtonia you do so knowing that it will die eventually.

However if you can get it to survive through a few winters and provide you with something nice to look at for 8 months of the year then you get your moneys worth. I have a Medullaris in a container, I know that there is no way on earth it will ever survive long-term in this country especially when it becomes to big to come into my house but it will be fun while it lasts and my hobby will be trying to get it to last as long as possible.

Robusta and Phoenix canariensis_CIDP grow alot better than things like Chamaerops and Trachycarpus for 8 months of the year, it's just the danger zone (mid-november to mid march) that a big effort must be made to protect them.
2012 Highest Temp - May 24th: 27*C / 25th July: 28*c
2012 Lowest Temp - Febuary 3rd: -6*C
2013 Highest Temp - 13th July: 30*c
2013 Lowest Temp - 13th March -4.5*c.


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Dave Brown
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by Dave Brown » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:30 am

greendragon wrote: and the lows in my area were only around -10*c even in December 2010.
We are talking Washingtonia here :lol: Minus 6 is the lowest they can reliably take without protection, and wrapping can lead to rotting in very damp conditions. :roll:
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Dave
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greendragon
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by greendragon » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:47 pm

Dave Brown wrote:
greendragon wrote: and the lows in my area were only around -10*c even in December 2010.
We are talking Washingtonia here :lol: Minus 6 is the lowest they can reliably take without protection, and wrapping can lead to rotting in very damp conditions. :roll:
I do plan to protect everything well. I know it would literally melt unprotected haha
2012 Highest Temp - May 24th: 27*C / 25th July: 28*c
2012 Lowest Temp - Febuary 3rd: -6*C
2013 Highest Temp - 13th July: 30*c
2013 Lowest Temp - 13th March -4.5*c.


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eddie
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by eddie » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:23 pm

I'm not in your country, but I believe we have similar weather most of the time... :?
so
I'm building a coldframe with building foil every year and wrap lightstrings around the palms. When mother Russia sends the deepfreeze, I switch the lights on. As an extra heatsource I use parasene parrafine burners (great UK product :wink:) when it gets really cold.
They've survived last february without any damage.

The palms are getting quite big now, so building the coldframes takes a while. But it's worth the effort I put in, since I'm enjoying it so much when they start to grow again the middle of march. Regardless the temperature, around halfway march they are starting to push out new leaves, wich I find quite strange actually.

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Washingtonia Trachycarpus Cordyline? Bamboos Olive tree? Bananas


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billdango
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by billdango » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:44 pm

You would think that we would have a lot of Washingtonias in Southampton as the winters are never as cold as most of the rest of the UK.

Temperatures of -6c are rarely recorded here esp in the City Center but are more common further out in the suburbs.

I have never had any luck with these palms in my garden as I live in a frost hollow but I have heard of a large specimen in Totton on the south west side of the City.

It may be possible to grow one in St Denys about 1 mile from where I live as its more protected there.

I do have a large pot specimen which I could try there I suppose if I can get permission from the owner to use her garden.

As CIDPs do fairly well [with protection whilst young] a Washingtonia should do well also.

I just need a good site to try one out?

billdango :D


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Nathan
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by Nathan » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:50 am

Bill go & plant one in one of the flower beds in the parks in the city centre icon_thumright
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Si
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by Si » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:25 pm

It seems they can be grown, for some time at least, in tiny micro pockets and extreme south costal areas but the info on the tree needs to be made clearer, check out the palm centres evaluation, -8 or lower :shock: nah.

Palm Centre
Washingtonia robusta - description below.

Sky Duster

Starting From: £186.75

Origin: Northern Mexico
Genus: Washingtonia
Species: robusta
Common Name: Mexican Fan palm, Sky Duster
Situation: Full sun, well-drained soil
Eventual height in the UK: 7-8m
Eventual spread: 2-3m
Hardiness: to -8C or lower
Skill level: Easy
Mancunia humedad cálida y de alta


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billdango
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by billdango » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:48 pm

Si wrote:It seems they can be grown, for some time at least, in tiny micro pockets and extreme south costal areas but the info on the tree needs to be made clearer, check out the palm centres evaluation, -8 or lower :shock: nah.

Palm Centre
Washingtonia robusta - description below.

Sky Duster

Starting From: £186.75

Origin: Northern Mexico
Genus: Washingtonia
Species: robusta
Common Name: Mexican Fan palm, Sky Duster
Situation: Full sun, well-drained soil
Eventual height in the UK: 7-8m
Eventual spread: 2-3m
Hardiness: to -8C or lower
Skill level: Easy
If they can take -8c then Southampton should be full of them?

There must be something wrong with my eyes as I can't see a single specimen anywhere.

Even I can't seem to grow these where I live as they always die after about 2 years even during mild winters.

Maybe the soil is not suitable?

rgds billdango :(


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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by Rod » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:23 am

-8°c would kill a young Washie here in Christchurch.
They start getting foliage damage in my garden at around -3°c, and are moderately damaged at -5°c
Latitude; 43°,31'S
Hottest Month; 23.0°c / 12.0°c
Coldest Month; 11.0°c / 2.0°c
Mean Sunshine; 2144 hrs
Mean Rainfall; 618 mm


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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by Dave Brown » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:29 am

This is how I see Washingtonia hardiness in the UK, and has been corroborated by other experienced UK Palm growers. http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk/forum/v ... 14&t=12913.

I think the Palm Centre may have taken it's figures from me, but used them out of context. An established, mature palm will survive -8C but will defoliate, and won't take -8C for more than a few hours. Temps need to rise above freezing for quite a few hours before another -8C could be tolerated. :wink: Full sun would be vital.
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by fieldfest » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:53 am

Nathan wrote:Here are a couple of more recent pics of Barry's Washingtonia in Edmonton, north London...
Image
First one from October 2011 & second from May this year, so it gives you an idea of how good a recovery they make, replacing damaged fronds from winter damage...

Don't forget the bigger they get the hardier they become too...
impressive, but its not pretty is it :lol:


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Nathan
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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by Nathan » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:35 pm

That's because it has damaged fronds, once they are quickly replaced during the summer they look pretty again... :wink:
Malta - USDA Zone 11a


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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by RogerBacardy » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:11 pm

I think it's the old leaves hanging down which is giving crucial winter protection to Barry's washy. Heat rises and cold air drops, so a skirt of leaves hanging down is perfect for protecting the trunk from falling cold air by directing it away, whilst channeling the warm air back in.

I reckon that if he kept it tidy and trimmed off all the old leaves it would have suffered a lot more damage & it might be a gonner by now. For the same reason I don't tidy up old cordyline leaves from September onwards, to give the trunks a bit of insulation.

There's a washy near me in a north facing front garden with an approx 1 mtr trunk. Aways looks awful due to repeated winter damage but is alive.


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Re: On the edge of extinction - in this country? Washingtoni

Post by Dave Brown » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:35 pm

RogerBacardy wrote:I think it's the old leaves hanging down which is giving crucial winter protection to Barry's washy. Heat rises and cold air drops, so a skirt of leaves hanging down is perfect for protecting the trunk from falling cold air by directing it away, whilst channeling the warm air back in.

I reckon that if he kept it tidy and trimmed off all the old leaves it would have suffered a lot more damage & it might be a gonner by now. For the same reason I don't tidy up old cordyline leaves from September onwards, to give the trunks a bit of insulation..
That isn't my finding Roger. The trunk is pretty impervious to the cold at the levels we are talking about, It's the leaves and particularly the growth point at the top of the trunk are the weakness areas. The hanging down leaves forming a skirt are not aesthetically pleasing to me.
RogerBacardy wrote:There's a washy near me in a north facing front garden with an approx 1 mtr trunk. Aways looks awful due to repeated winter damage but is alive.
North facing is no good, as in cold spells frost stays all day, and will be slow to recover without full sun.
Best regards
Dave
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