Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

User avatar
billdango
Posts: 2854
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:12 am
Location: southampton

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by billdango » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:57 pm

Troppoz wrote:
targui wrote:The Bangalow palm has about the same hardiness as the New Zealand Nikau palm, but handles direct sun better.
They will not take minus 5c of frost. At minus 2c they will sustain damage, anything over that will be fatal
on most occasions. They prefer rich soil and coastal conditions. The southern limit of the Bangalow in eastern
Australia is latitude 35.35 degrees south, at Batemans Bay on New South Wales southern coast. Bangalows will not
thrive as an indoor plant as they require high humidity. This palm seems to flower better in open situations
rather than under the shady canopy of trees and bush.
Targui that might be the southern limit of its natural range (though Im sure Ive seen them growing in scrub around Bega much further south) but they actually can handle Hobarts climate and are planted extensively in Melbourne. Considering that Hobarts climate is only marginally warmer than Southampton they could be considered amrginal for the milder parts of the UK as Nathans efforts show.
I suppose I could try one here in Southampton but I have never seen any for sale here so for the moment its not possible for me?
billdango :(


User avatar
Vagetarian
Posts: 939
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:37 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by Vagetarian » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:06 pm

You can get one from Spain on ebay UK :D


targui
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:54 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by targui » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:20 pm

Troppoz, although relatively marginal, the mean annual temperature of Southhampton is 10.8c and the
mean annual temperature for Hobart is 12.6c. The near 2c difference can be the tipping point as to
whether a plant survives or not. Hobart is also 540 miles or 865 kilometers closer to the equator than
Southhampton which is another factor. This does not dismiss the possibility of a Bangalow being
successfully grown in a special microclimate in the U.K. I have no doubt these do exist in Britain
especially along the southern coast in places like Devon and Cornwall.


User avatar
billdango
Posts: 2854
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:12 am
Location: southampton

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by billdango » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:23 pm

targui wrote:Troppoz, although relatively marginal, the mean annual temperature of Southhampton is 10.8c and the
mean annual temperature for Hobart is 12.6c. The near 2c difference can be the tipping point as to
whether a plant survives or not. Hobart is also 540 miles or 865 kilometers closer to the equator than
Southhampton which is another factor. This does not dismiss the possibility of a Bangalow being
successfully grown in a special microclimate in the U.K. I have no doubt these do exist in Britain
especially along the southern coast in places like Devon and Cornwall.
Southampton may be a possibility but the palm would have to be covered from November till at least mid April as a spell of cold winds from eastern Europe is always likely to happen.

The south coast of the IOW or Southsea is the best bet but freezing winds will always have to be guarded against.

Torquay or Tresco will I think be the best bet or if that fails try the Channel islands.

Where there's a will there is also a way and no dought someone on this forum will manage to do it.

billdango :D


Nathan
Posts: 4101
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: St Paul's Bay, Malta

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by Nathan » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:22 pm

Tresco is the only place that has ever managed to grow an Archotophoenix to maturity in the UK, but it was killed in 1987, they have planted some young plants recently however...

These are palms to grow on 'borrowed time'. They may be ok for a few years, or possibly more, but they will be killed by the cold winters we get every once in a while.

I don't think they stand a chance in Southampton personally & would only survive in a particularly mild winter. Mine were damaged at below 0C & even when wrapped with fleece were severaly damaged or killed by -2.5C, with the survivors being killed the following winter by a -2.3C. They are not hardy palms at all, especially in a UK climate unfortunately...

I will grow them again though, even though I know I will lose them one day...
Malta - USDA Zone 11a


User avatar
Troppoz
Posts: 6099
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:16 am
Location: Darwin Australia 12.6 degrees south

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by Troppoz » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:55 pm

Nathan wrote:
These are palms to grow on 'borrowed time'. They may be ok for a few years, or possibly more, but they will be killed by the cold winters we get every once in a while.
Nathan that seems to be the case for most of the plants that people on this forum grow and very few 'tropicalesque' plants could be considered hardy in the true sense.

Im curious if Kentia palms have been grown on Tresco?
Sean


Nathan
Posts: 4101
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: St Paul's Bay, Malta

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by Nathan » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:55 pm

Troppoz wrote:
Nathan wrote:
These are palms to grow on 'borrowed time'. They may be ok for a few years, or possibly more, but they will be killed by the cold winters we get every once in a while.
Nathan that seems to be the case for most of the plants that people on this forum grow and very few 'tropicalesque' plants could be considered hardy in the true sense.

Im curious if Kentia palms have been grown on Tresco?
Yes, thing is some people grow a plant & it dies one winter so they never bother growing it again, saying it 'isn't hardy'. Fair enough if something dies EVERY winter, but if it survives MOST winters...
My philosophy is the same as some in places like Florida, where they will grow certain palms happily for a few years, then have them die in a cold winter, they simply plant them again & enjoy them until another cold winter arrives. As the saying goes "Better to have love & lost, then to have never loved at all" :wink:

I'm not sure if Tresco had Kentia's in the past, but they have recently planted some small ones there, so hopefully in a few years (if no more arctic blasts) they could have some impressive specimens... I did have some Kentia's outside too, but they were killed at the same time as my Bangalows. I was tempted to buy a fairly big one recently to try again outside, but want to be sure winters are heading in the right direction first. If we have another cold winter this year then it will make me re-think trying out more tender palms...
Malta - USDA Zone 11a


Alexander
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:14 am
Location: Leidschendam, The Netherlands. (52 N latitude)

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by Alexander » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:36 pm

Well in Florida they grow fast. So lets say every 10 years a killer winter, then 9 years you get a nice palm. Not something what produce 1 or 2 leaves a year...

Howeas are slow growing by the way, even under glass with warm/hot humid conditions. So not reale a palm for the UK climate I guess. Better go then for a Juania australis.

Alexander


Nathan
Posts: 4101
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: St Paul's Bay, Malta

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by Nathan » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:02 pm

Alexander wrote:Well in Florida they grow fast. So lets say every 10 years a killer winter, then 9 years you get a nice palm. Not something what produce 1 or 2 leaves a year...

Howeas are slow growing by the way, even under glass with warm/hot humid conditions. So not reale a palm for the UK climate I guess. Better go then for a Juania australis.

Alexander
Archontophoenix cunninghamiana grew quite fast for me even in the UK. From an 18 inch plant to 9ft tall over 5/6 years, I got much more than just 1 or 2 leaves per year...

And yes I am well aware of how slow growing Howea are, having grown them myself. But if anywhere is going to grow them to trunking size it is Tresco (after many years of course) The fact they grew Rhopalostylis & Archontophoenix to mature trunking palms shows this is possible...

And I already have a Juania, completely unfazed by the last few cold winters & it is now getting quite big icon_thumright
Malta - USDA Zone 11a


Alexander
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:14 am
Location: Leidschendam, The Netherlands. (52 N latitude)

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by Alexander » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:06 am

That they can grow Archontophoenix cunninghamia at Tresco is amazing! I thought they did need more heat to grow well.
Well I saw some pictures on Palmtalk with many Archontophoenix damaged by frost, so maybe some coldhardiness but still they do not realy like it I guess...

And they look very tropical, typical a tropical or subtropical rainforest palm. I have never grown them by the way, but would be a nice palm for our tropical butterflygarden here.

Alexander


Alexander
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:14 am
Location: Leidschendam, The Netherlands. (52 N latitude)

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by Alexander » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:20 am

About those palms in Florida, I had a look at the average temperature of the coldest month in Orlando. In Januari that arround 12 C during the night and 22 C during the day. With the odd nasty coldsnap.

Exact the same as here for the warmest month, Rotterdam in July 22 C as a maximum and 12 C as a minimum. Except we do not have any frost in that month fortunately.

So I am surprised that Cunnighamia will grow outside at all in the UK. Summers are not that differend there from here. Well not in the southern part.

Alexander


targui
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:54 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by targui » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:26 pm

If there are Bangalow palms seeding in Hobart, the best trick would be to source some of those seeds,
as they probably have garnered some in built hardiness and may be a good option to propagate from.


Nathan
Posts: 4101
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: St Paul's Bay, Malta

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by Nathan » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:23 pm

Well Hobart never gets that cold, but average temperatures would be closer to those in the UK...

I had read that the hardiest forms of Archontophoenix cunninghamiana come from some inland & high elevation areas of Queensland, where locally temperatures can drop to -5C to -7C in an average winter, the problem here though is that these palms are used to a much higher average temperature, so may be slower growing in a UK climate...

Depending on how this coming winter goes I may plant another one out next spring icon_thumright
Last edited by Nathan on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Malta - USDA Zone 11a


User avatar
Troppoz
Posts: 6099
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:16 am
Location: Darwin Australia 12.6 degrees south

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by Troppoz » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:36 pm

targui wrote:If there are Bangalow palms seeding in Hobart, the best trick would be to source some of those seeds,
as they probably have garnered some in built hardiness and may be a good option to propagate from.
Targui do you know if bangalows are grown in southern parts of NZ like Christchurch?

The ones Ive seen in Hobart were nowhere near fruiting size but had trunks of about 6 feet, fairly slow growing and had not grown more than a couple of feet since I first saw them about 4 years ago. They were growing in a fairly exposed site that would generally have been frost free but were quite wind burnt. I think with better siting they would have made faster growing and more handsome plants.
Sean


targui
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:54 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana {bangalow palm}

Post by targui » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:00 pm

Troppoz, I recall seeing them on the west coast of the south island and around Nelson at latitudes 41 and 42
degrees south, similar to Hobart. I did not see any fully mature examples. A lot of the west coast gets
very little frost due to constant air movement off the Tasman sea, and being a narrow coastal strip. I doubt Bangalows would survive in Christchurch due to heavy frost.


Post Reply