Buita nomenclature -new names

Nigel
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Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by Nigel » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:29 pm

OK to save confusion here is the summary.

Butia capitata, name given to almost every Butia in the nursery trade regardless of what it actually is. If you buy a Butia capitata its a lucky dip of which one you actually get, but its unlikely to be capitata.
It is now formally the Butia from central Brazil , not generally in cultivation, a medium sized Butia ans probably not one of the hardier ones.

Butia odorata
This is the one formerly called capitata. Its a huge Butia from Southern tip of Brazil and Uruguay. This together with eriospatha are the two hardiest types.

Butia eriospatha
Huge Butia from mountains of southern Brazil,sees coldest winters of any Butia. Summers in the mountains are also cooler and it is the fastest growing of the Butias.

Butia catarinensis
Small to medium size Butia from coastal south Brazil. Synonym is Butia bonnettii. Remarkably hardy. Formerly called Butia odorata.

Various other species mostly from the paraguayensis complex but not generally available. The other sought after Butia is Butia yatay , but this one grows on hot sand plains with abundant water just below the ground, is notably slower than other Butias , needing more heat and can prove challenging.
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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by flounder » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:34 pm

Thanks. I remember seeing some marked as butia capitata var. odorata. is this a cross or is it another generic term?
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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by cordyman » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:40 pm

Who officially changes/decides on the new classification?

Thanks for the clarification icon_thumleft


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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by Dave Brown » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:01 pm

ok, I didn't realise there was still a capitata, but the web sites still have it as hardy to about -12C which is now wrong by the sounds of it. My website is also incorrect as not all capitata are now ordorata :roll: Boy this is going to be a consumer/marketing nightmare.
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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by Dave Brown » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:06 pm

cordyman wrote:Who officially changes/decides on the new classification?
It's the big botanical guys.
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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by GoggleboxUK » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:40 pm

I bought mine as a Capitata but I assume its an oderata.

I assume Dave's ordorata is an oderata that shouts a lot and tells the others what to do.

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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by Nigel » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:45 pm

Butia capitata var odorata was the correct name for what is now catarinensis ,although I have seen it used for more than 1 species.

The whole thing is a big joke, nurserys just call everything capitata because thats the marketable name, and not going to change any time soon.

The review was conducted by Harri Lorenzi and Larry Noblick , two of the leading experts in the field.
It was neccessary because Butia capitata was still officially the name of 3 distinct and botanically different populations. Butia paraguayensis was an even bigger mess with a whole host of different Butias lumped in there.
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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by Conifers » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:05 am

Here's a review of what I presume is the main relevant text. Doesn't appear to be available online, unfortunately.

This paper (pdf) is also relevant.


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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by Nigel » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:08 am

Conifers wrote:Here's a review of what I presume is the main relevant text. Doesn't appear to be available online, unfortunately.

This paper (pdf) is also relevant.
Fantastic book, I recommend it.
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Mr List
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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by Mr List » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:21 am

so how hardy is Butia eriospatha
and where has them?


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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by karl66 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:28 am

ken, i would estimate -12 if planted out, a lot less in a pot!!. Although these temp's would have to be for short period's & i'd expect some leafburn. Nigel's your erio expert as i'm still on L plate's with them. karl.


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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by Nigel » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:16 pm

It really depends on the length of the cold spell as with any palm. A short burst at -12C is probably survivable without too much damge. I would say -8C to -10C is where they show damage. A spell of cold with constant subzeros of two weeks or more might kill them at say -6C if unprotected, although I know of two examples that appeared dead from Dec 2010 that started growing back last summer.
Most winters have 1 or 2 cold spells where they might need protecting for a week or two to keep them looking nice.
A winter like Dec 2010 is another matter.
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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by grub » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:28 pm

I had two Erios , one was fine through two winters with lows of -9C as was my Odorata (this was before the name re-shuffle) the other stone dead. A winter of -12C saw off the other two :(
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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by Nigel » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:56 pm

grub wrote:A winter of -12C saw off the other two :(
I thought that too with a couple ,but they grew back last summer , never dig up a palm until its 3 years dead.
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Re: Buita nomenclature -new names

Post by MikeC » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:59 pm

Nigel wrote:
grub wrote:A winter of -12C saw off the other two :(
I thought that too with a couple ,but they grew back last summer , never dig up a palm until its 3 years dead.
Yep, made that mistake a few times in the early days when I thought a palm having brown leaves means it's dead. You dig it out and think, how odd, the roots all look healthy, but hey, no top growth it must be dead.


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