Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

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MikeC

Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by MikeC »

If I planted a large palm tree close say 5 feet from a house wall and put one these

http://www.camping-caravan-outdoors.co. ... p?item=524

On the wall angled at the top centre of the palm, would infra red heat keep the plant warm?

I'd only turn it on at night on the coldest nights.

It says it heats people without heating the air in between.

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Conifers
Posts: 13147
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:11 pm
Location: Northumbs

Re: Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by Conifers »

It'd heat whatever part of the palm is directly visible from the lamp. So it could still get frozen on the side facing away, and also much of the heart including the central spear, which is shaded from the side by outer leaves. Overall, not worth it.
sanatic1234

Re: Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by sanatic1234 »

You can't really say its not worth it conifers till its been tried and tested can you!
What i would do mike is buy a cheap palm say like a Phoenix canariensis_CIDP and test it on that. that way you aint losing loads of money. :wink:
fgtbell

Re: Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by fgtbell »

Over at the European Palm Society, a lot of the guys use heating cables. It's the same stuff that you can buy for DIY propagators. Generally it's quite low powered - the aim is to raise the temperature to just above zero in most cases - i.e. for palms that are almost hardy. Obviously if you're growing tropical palms then you'd need more heat - but for those you'd be better off indoors.
Doug-Tews

Re: Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by Doug-Tews »

sanatic1234 wrote:You can't really say its not worth it conifers till its been tried and tested can you!
In fact, Conifers is completely correct. I know of vegetable farmers in Florida that have tried radiant heat sources to protect their crops during occasional winter freezes. It generally doesn't work for the reasons explained. Only surfaces within a direct line-of-sight of the heat source are offered any protection. Farmers saw their vegetables protected on the side facing the radiant heater, but the side facing away from the heater was frozen solid. As a result of many such experiments, attempts to use radiant heat during frost were abandoned.
Kristen

Re: Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by Kristen »

I thought orchard growers did it to keep the frost off the early Spring flowers?
Doug-Tews

Re: Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by Doug-Tews »

Kristen wrote:I thought orchard growers did it to keep the frost off the early Spring flowers?
I suspect you're thinking of heaters that are designed to impart warmth to he surrounding air or by condensation. In the case of radiant heaters, only the blossoms that can directly "see" the heater receive any significant protection. If a blossom was hidden by a few leaves or a branch, it would still be subjected to the full force of the cold air.

Any heating methods I've heard of in recent years all involve modifying the air temperature. As that circulates around the entire plant, it can provide some measure of protection. Years ago, the Florida citrus growers made use of "smudge pots". These were in essence, very smokey, oil burning contraptions. The smokey exhaust was also full of water vapor. By stationing hundreds of these throughout an orchard, the damp smoke would raise the air temperature slightly and the continuous condensation on the fruit would help prevent freezing.

Eventually these things fell out of favor. Not only was the fuel becoming very expensive, but they also caused a huge amount of air pollution.

In some places in California, where many orchards are also in valleys, they've adopted a much more environmentally sound solution: Man-made fog. A company called MEE came out with some special nozzles that operate under very high pressure. Water forced through these creates genuine fog, not mist. Some growers have stationed these through their orchards and if a cold, still night threatens their crops...on comes the fog. Within just a few minutes an entire orchard can be bathed in fog. This traps radiant heat from the earth and keep the grove significantly warmer than the surrounding areas.

Nowadays in Florida, most growers just use sprinklers. As the water freezes on the crops, the latent heat is released into the crop. As long as water is continuously supplied, the ice will not drop below 0C, so the plant remains protected.

Unfortunately, none of these techniques is very viable here in the UK for the deep freezes we've experienced the last several years. When it gets -5C, or -10C and is like that all night long, there isn't a whole lot that can be done, except wrap a plant in a tight cocoon of protection and hope for the best. :roll:
Kristen

Re: Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by Kristen »

Ah yes, pretty sure the heating was those aircraft-hanger type things - gas in at one end, big fan, and heated air out of the other end. Not like radiated heat at all, exactly as you describe.

The watering thing is akin to what folk used to do (maybe farmers still do?) getting up long before sunrise to water their Potatoes so the frost was warmed & gently melted before the sun got on it. A process gentle to the plant's cells using water, but violent if caused by direct sunlight. Bit like not planting Camellias on the East side of a wall / screen, so their blooms don't get direct sun first thing on a frosty morning.
jimhardy

Re: Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by jimhardy »

Such a great idea but possibly overkill (and underkill :wink:) as there are more
effient ways to heat a small area
billdango

Re: Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by billdango »

Just do like I do and stick a nice hot well wrapped hot water bottle at the top of the palm near the growing point.

You may have to renew the water once or twice during the night but it does work.

The important thing to remember here is that you are not trying to keep the palm growing this is just to keep the temperature from dropping below the freezing point for any length of time.

The bottom of the palm up to the growing tip can be protected as normal with a nice thick wrap of some sort.

rgds billdango. icon_thumleft
Ian Cooke

Re: Would an Infra Red lamp keep a large palm tree warm?

Post by Ian Cooke »

Just visited the Huntington garden yesterday which had an excellent desrt garden (I'll post more on my blog in a day or so) but I was fascinated to see much of the area protected with patio heaters connected presumably to a piped gas supply.
Huntington Garden 125-qpr.jpg
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