wrapping tracycarpus.

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Dave Brown
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Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by Dave Brown »

I know everyone thinks I'm a heartless bar steward, but..... we had a 2/3 week spell which was the coldest, in many places, for over 100 years. Now some are gardening like we live above the arctic circle. I'm sure this is why there were virtually no Trachycarpus other than in the southwest back in the 1970s. We had a couple of bad winters in the 1890s and the view then was it was not hardy, so it was not planted away from the SW from then on. :roll:

A mature, established Trachycarpus, in good health, should be good to -12 to -15C. A self sown (in ground) seedling is good to -6C, and an established 3 to 4 year old to -9 or -10C.

If the palm is under any stress/trauma, for whatever reason, it will reduce it's ability to stand cold. Unfortunately, every time a palm is damaged of killed in a winter, it is always blamed on lack of hardiness, and I do not believe this to be correct.

It could be poor growing conditions ie.. soil, water, drainage, feeding, bacteria, fugal attack, root damage, etc. :roll:

If the palm is young, or has been caused stress/trauma, protect by throwing a fleece over the crown if very cold temps are forecast. This is easily done by tying stones into the corners and literally throwing over. The stones will weigh it down :wink: The rest of the winter leave it alone. A stressed palm wrapped in the dark for the whole winter, will be even more stressed by spring.
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Tom2006
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Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by Tom2006 »

Dave your not heartless you just didnt have it as bad as many of us. I had 2-3weeks where the temperature didnt rise above freezing let alone the rest of the cold spell which lasted from late Nov to early Jan up here. Many had it worse! You might be thinking differently if you had experienced what many did. It wasn't just a case of ill stressed plants. I've seen very large previously healthy trachies up here that are now very badly damaged, some died.

I do agree with you that we shouldn't be wrapping them all winter but we SHOULD all have a plan because last winter we were colder than the arctic at points. Better to discuss how others have or haven't done things and maybe there will be less death this winter. All the signs are for another cold one. :roll
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DiCasS
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Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by DiCasS »

I suspect if it'd got any lower where my larger Trachycarpus's were placed, I think they might have been severely damaged or died. A recording of -15 near the house and all indications are that it was -17 further down the garden. I think we would all agree that wrapping for months on end isn't going to do a palm any good, but for a short period (whilst the weather is at it's worst) surely can only be a good thing.

Interestingly though, the two that did suffer the worst damage was the Waggie and Fortunei x Waggie. :?

Di
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GoggleboxUK

Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by GoggleboxUK »

I know, mixed opinions on whether to plant or not but the simple fact is they will be better established for winter going in next March and better protected this year dragged against the house behind the additional shelter of the bamboo fencing, pots lagged and duvet covered in the worst of the freezes.

Least likely lost seems best.

:0
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Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by Dave Brown »

Tom2006 wrote:Dave your not heartless you just didnt have it as bad as many of us. I had 2-3weeks where the temperature didnt rise above freezing let alone the rest of the cold spell which lasted from late Nov to early Jan up here. Many had it worse! You might be thinking differently if you had experienced what many did. It wasn't just a case of ill stressed plants. I've seen very large previously healthy trachies up here that are now very badly damaged, some died.

I do agree with you that we shouldn't be wrapping them all winter but we SHOULD all have a plan because last winter we were colder than the arctic at points. Better to discuss how others have or haven't done things and maybe there will be less death this winter. All the signs are for another cold one. :roll
Trachycarpus hardiness has suffered from inflation over the years. First they survived -12C, then -15C, then -17C even -20C..... but of course they didn't. :roll: People read the coldest temps and probably had them in a microclimate. I think many places got to below Trachycarpus killing temps for the first time in 100 years. If you are going to change the way you garden based on a 100 year low, then we better all garden expecting 39C high in summer, as we got that in 2003. :lol: 'course not had it since unfortunately :roll:
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The Codfather
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Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by The Codfather »

I agree.........but at the end of 2009 we were saying it can't happen again.....then 2010 come and look what happend.....I think its fair to say we don't really know but you can't rule out either way......and on that note I will have stuff on standby.
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GoggleboxUK

Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by GoggleboxUK »

3 Years in a row and it won't be coincidence, it will be pattern.

You can dismiss it as being a 100 year low but by doing that you are dismissing a huge amount of science theory over the last 20 years and a couple of years of science fact.

Of course, if it doesn't happen then we can point and laugh at all the global warming conspiracy theorists.

The main thing in this debate that shouldn't be overlooked is that there's a difference of 10 degrees between a bad winter up north and a bad winter down south.
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Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by Tom2006 »

Dave Brown wrote:
Tom2006 wrote:Dave your not heartless you just didnt have it as bad as many of us. I had 2-3weeks where the temperature didnt rise above freezing let alone the rest of the cold spell which lasted from late Nov to early Jan up here. Many had it worse! You might be thinking differently if you had experienced what many did. It wasn't just a case of ill stressed plants. I've seen very large previously healthy trachies up here that are now very badly damaged, some died.

I do agree with you that we shouldn't be wrapping them all winter but we SHOULD all have a plan because last winter we were colder than the arctic at points. Better to discuss how others have or haven't done things and maybe there will be less death this winter. All the signs are for another cold one. :roll
Trachycarpus hardiness has suffered from inflation over the years. First they survived -12C, then -15C, then -17C even -20C..... but of course they didn't. :roll: People read the coldest temps and probably had them in a microclimate. I think many places got to below Trachycarpus killing temps for the first time in 100 years. If you are going to change the way you garden based on a 100 year low, then we better all garden expecting 39C high in summer, as we got that in 2003. :lol: 'course not had it since unfortunately :roll:
I totally agree it was a once in a hundred year winter but surely it's very sensible to plan for this happening again? I foolishly didn't believe that we could have a winter spell colder than.09-10 and we smashed it last winter. The predictions for winter coming is for it to be as cold if not colder and I am going to do everything I can rather than laugh it off. If its mild I will be very happy despite the money effort and time that I am investing in trying to protect them.
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GoggleboxUK

Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by GoggleboxUK »

Me too Tom.

There'll be one of 2 outcomes after next winter:

Those who spent a fortune pn protection will be embarrassed and have lots of exotic plants

or

Those who didn't won't.

:!:
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The Codfather
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Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by The Codfather »

Well £40 is hardly a fortune compared to what you have paid for your plants......

and if they do die, it will not be through lack of trying....
AKA - Martin

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Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by Dave Brown »

GoggleboxUK wrote:
The main thing in this debate that shouldn't be overlooked is that there's a difference of 10 degrees between a bad winter up north and a bad winter down south.
Sorry, that is completely incorrect. :roll: Jezza, near High Wycombe had -19C and can hardy be called in the north. There was a 10C difference between coastal and inland. It happened both north and south. I grant you it went on for longer in the north, but the extreme cold occurred in many places regardless of latitude.

If you are all saying you can no longer grow Trachycarpus, well that is your decision, but as the best suited palm to our climate, what you are really saying is that you can no longer grow any palms outside. :roll:
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Rachelpalm

Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by Rachelpalm »

Hello
what I do with mine when we have snow is shake the snow off and put 30gsm fleece bags on them. The fleece bags let air and light and water through so palms do not rot or die. I only leave on as long as snow and cold weather lasts. They are in large pots. Then remove again. My palms got through last 9 winters like this. Only palm that pegged it(last winter) was a Canarian Palm and a purple Cordyline( got down to about -8c here so too cold for them).

I planted a large Waggy in May in the ground and it was £125 so I will watch the weather forecast like a hawk and fleece it up when needed.
GoggleboxUK

Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by GoggleboxUK »

Dave I don't think anyone is saying they can no longer grow Trachys, I'm certainly not saying that. I'm not saaying I can't grow Palms either, that would be ridiculous considering the number and variety of palms I've bought this year.

All I'm doing is preparing fopr the worst and hoping for the best winter. If you consider that to be crazy gardening then you're entitled to that opinion but, regardless of Jezza having a -19, the North IS colder than the South whether we're in a 100 year low or not. You only have to look at the number of CIDPs dotted around the country to know that.

Come winter 2012/13 maybe I'll prepare differently. I'll have a heated greenhouse and my big Trachys will be in the ground but this year that's not the case so I'm making preparations to overwinter what I've bought. Can't understand why it shou;d cause such debate for me to do that unless I have inadvertently come across as recommending everyone follow my example. I'm certainly not doing that, I'm just sharing my intentions on how I'll be coping with what could be a 101 year low.

;)
jezza

Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by jezza »

What i would add, is that the trachys that took the -19 without damage were all nursery grown and have 18" trunks on them. The trachys that were damaged were all bought from diy sheds. Because of this i only buy trachys from places like george at the palm house.

This was the snow that fell in december 2009.....
Picture0097.jpg
Today.....
HPIM6966.JPG
No protection at all.
billdango

Re: wrapping tracycarpus.

Post by billdango »

i think the main problem this year is going to be this poor wet summer followed by a hard winter.
many palms and other exotics that just got through the last two winters with any kind of damage will not take another big freeze.
most palms and cordylines here in southampton were undamaged last december but most of the city's Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's were clobbered.
only serius palm growers protected their Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's and other rare palms so these are the only survivers.
with palms in southampton only making slow growth this year the outlook will be very bad come winter ,so because of this there may be worse losses to come.
billdango. :( :( :( :(
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