Hardiness debate losely around Phoenix canariensis

Forum rules
This area is for Reference and discussion of plant hardiness, overwintering methods and tips, and planr protection.
Post Reply
Adrian Brattle
Posts: 436
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:57 am
Location: NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE

Hardiness debate losely around Phoenix canariensis

Post by Adrian Brattle » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:38 pm

This is my understanding.
Phoenix canariensis cannot flourish in cool temperate region with maritime influence. My reasons are:

1. Wet freeze my injure the crown.

2. Maritime climates with mean annual bio-temperature below 12 degrees C will allow fungus to attack the injured crown after winter as past.

I’m from north east England. The mean annual bio-temperature here is only 9 degrees C. With wet freeze in winter this palm cannot survive here. It is the fungal attack that will kill it. icon_study


Gaz

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Gaz » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:52 pm

Hi Adrian, welcome on board!

I think you will find many people on here will disagree with you on this one, as there are many members who have been sucessful with these over a number of years. Having said that I guess the fact does remain that a real winter (one more serious than what we have had even this year) could see even the bigger ones off. However its all about pushing the boundaries of what we can grow!

Check out the pictures at Southsea (Portsmouth)

Our Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's have both fared quite well. We have had -8 this year and nearly 2 weeks under snow. The larger planted one was trussed up and is still pushing out spears. The smaller one in a pot also still looks good. I know i may well be counting my chickens too soon but im reasonably happy they have both made it though this poor winter, after all its been the worst in 20 years so statistically we shouldnt exepct worse than this for some time.


User avatar
photonbucket
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:53 pm
Location: Coastal Suffolk
Contact:

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by photonbucket » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:54 pm

We've just had the harshest winter in 18 years and mine CIDPs are fine; even the babies that I didnt protect.

Even my baby Washys are fine. (Only 18 inches tall and with only slight damage).
http://www.buyaparcel.com and buyaparcel on EBay. One of the largest EBay sellers in the UK. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/buyaparcel


User avatar
palmking
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: South Reddish,Stockport
Contact:

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by palmking » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:07 pm

I don't usually react negatively but those facts are a little skewed.

Fact is my P.Canariensis never get wet rot and they've been out for 5 years now with little damage.In fact, the only things that ever got any sort of fungal attack was an oleander and a Washingtonia Filifera but that was due to other factors. Though if you bubble wrap the crown or some other form of protection which allows humid conditions to persist with little aeration, then any palm or plant will succumb to fungal attack.

There's much you can do and I suspect if you've got a problem like that , then you need to look at where you're planting them and whether you've modified the soil.

Minimums lows here were -5.5c. It might be true of the North east but much of the rest of the country manages to grow these palms without too many problems.

Fact is, I just checked today on several 7 foot high and wide Phoenix canariensis_CIDP in Manchester city centre and they're untouched by a winter low of -4C and unprotected too and that's in the 'rainy city' !

Many years of observations of spring recovery in palms here would show a distinctly different result , so long as the plants are planted in the right microclimates.

It is more likely that the incessant Wind in your area of the country and the exposure to North Easterlies, coupled with low temperatures and high humidity is a significant contributory factor to your experiences and understanding.

Paul.
Last edited by palmking on Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.


Adrian Brattle
Posts: 436
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:57 am
Location: NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Adrian Brattle » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:11 pm

you will not know the damage until late spring. southsea is just on borderline of 12 degree C mean annual bio-temperature.


User avatar
GARYnNAT
Posts: 1816
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:07 pm
Location: Cambridge UK

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by GARYnNAT » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:29 pm

I have 2 planted out the largest one i have just trimmed the leaves off ready to dig up but has come through the winter with -6.9 the low unmarked as has a smaller one that has been in the ground for 5 years unprotected.

The smaller one
garden sept 08 016.jpg
And the big one
garden sept 08 050.jpg
Gary
Last edited by GARYnNAT on Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chief Troll
My green thumb came only as a result of the mistakes I made while learning to see things from the plant's point of view


Adrian Brattle
Posts: 436
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:57 am
Location: NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Adrian Brattle » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:30 pm

In Sunderland you find 2, 7 foot Phoenix canariensis_CIDP in big pots which they bring in during the night time freeze.


User avatar
irish dave
Posts: 541
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:05 pm
Location: galway.ireland
Contact:

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by irish dave » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:34 pm

Here is one that was planted in 1960 just outside cork city ireland.And i dont think anyone gets more rain than us.And over that period we have had very cold winters to.But here you are a full growen Phoenix canariensis_CIDP icon_sunny
David N


TOP BANANA
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:43 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by TOP BANANA » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:35 pm

There not doing too bad in North Wales in my stepdads garden , i planted this one in 1999.
n.wales 026.jpg
its had no protection in all these years.
Hadge


User avatar
irish dave
Posts: 541
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:05 pm
Location: galway.ireland
Contact:

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by irish dave » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:44 pm

If you plant them,they will grow
February 14 - Limerick - 2009 003.jpg
icon_cheers
David N


User avatar
photonbucket
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:53 pm
Location: Coastal Suffolk
Contact:

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by photonbucket » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:51 pm

I have seen the odd fatality around the neighbourhood, but 99% of the baby Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's people buy in B&Q and the like, seem to survive easily.

As I drove around tonight, I saw loads of £4.99 jobs looking perfectly happy. My big one has been out 3 winters and I have 4 babies that are all looking fine and have already survived at least one. -5.6c last year and -6 this year.
http://www.buyaparcel.com and buyaparcel on EBay. One of the largest EBay sellers in the UK. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/buyaparcel


User avatar
photonbucket
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:53 pm
Location: Coastal Suffolk
Contact:

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by photonbucket » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:53 pm

photonbucket wrote:My big one has been out 3 winters and I have 4 babies that are all looking fine and have already survived at least one.
Don't read this out of context, I'd hate to be anything but modest! :ahhh!:
http://www.buyaparcel.com and buyaparcel on EBay. One of the largest EBay sellers in the UK. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/buyaparcel


Nigel Fear
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:16 pm
Location: Southend on sea Essex

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Nigel Fear » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:55 pm

I wonder who has the most northerly grown phoenix canariensis?
By that I mean still ouside fleeced or otherwise.


User avatar
Dave Brown
Site Admin
Posts: 19686
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:17 am
Location: Chalk, (Thames Estuary) Kent, England 51.5N 0.3E
Contact:

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Dave Brown » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:06 pm

Welcome to the forum Adrian icon_salut

Where are you getting your information :?: and what is 12C bio-temperature :?:

They survive in my area with the tallest now around 15 to 18 feet. These are not grown by palm enthusiasts, but just ordinary people that grew them from DIY stores small ones. They survive unprotected down to -8C and I think we have found this year -9C is too much, but the main thing seems to be as much airflow as possible and only protect when absolutely necessary :wink: They don't mind high humidity, but stagnent air is a real problem :wink:
Best regards
Dave
icon_thumright
_________________________________________________
Roll on summer.....
http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk


User avatar
photonbucket
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:53 pm
Location: Coastal Suffolk
Contact:

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by photonbucket » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:29 pm

Im sure they can be found further north than this, but I saw a perfectly happy Trachycarpus in Malliag on the north-west coast of Scotland. Looked better than mine!!

I wonder if these people have ever tried a Phoenix outside...

http://www.aboutscotland.co.uk/land/inverewe.html
http://www.buyaparcel.com and buyaparcel on EBay. One of the largest EBay sellers in the UK. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/buyaparcel


Post Reply