Hardiness debate losely around Phoenix canariensis

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This area is for Reference and discussion of plant hardiness, overwintering methods and tips, and planr protection.
Adrian White

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Adrian White »

themes wrote:
Dave Brown wrote:Hi Superted, and welcome to the forum icon_salut

It seems if you believe they are hardy and just plonk them out you stand a reasonable chance of them coming through most winters in most areas. If you don't believe they are hardy and start to molly coddle, you'll probably lose them. Rotting through wrapping against cold is one of the biggest killers :roll:
Totally agree with this. Small ones plonked in the ground. No feed. No extra drainage. Came through winter fine.

Treat them mean, keep them keen. A good approach to alot of things :wink:
So these are not as difficult as some people would make out? Sounds an ideal palm.
grub

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by grub »

themes wrote:
Dave Brown wrote:Hi Superted, and welcome to the forum icon_salut

It seems if you believe they are hardy and just plonk them out you stand a reasonable chance of them coming through most winters in most areas. If you don't believe they are hardy and start to molly coddle, you'll probably lose them. Rotting through wrapping against cold is one of the biggest killers :roll:
Totally agree with this. Small ones plonked in the ground. No feed. No extra drainage. Came through winter fine.

Treat them mean, keep them keen. A good approach to alot of things :wink:
Steady on boys that's not true for everyone. I lost 3 phoenix last winter that sailed through the previous 2 winters (including my large Mulu one :cry: )My lowest temp being -9 the last 2 winters so it's not just the low that does the damage remember it's the length of it too. As I've said before from now on Phoenix for me in a rural location are summer bedding :( (I do wish it could be different :lol: )
themes

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by themes »

Adrian White wrote:
themes wrote:
Dave Brown wrote:Hi Superted, and welcome to the forum icon_salut

It seems if you believe they are hardy and just plonk them out you stand a reasonable chance of them coming through most winters in most areas. If you don't believe they are hardy and start to molly coddle, you'll probably lose them. Rotting through wrapping against cold is one of the biggest killers :roll:
Totally agree with this. Small ones plonked in the ground. No feed. No extra drainage. Came through winter fine.

Treat them mean, keep them keen. A good approach to alot of things :wink:
So these are not as difficult as some people would make out? Sounds an ideal palm.
I am not saying it is a walk in the park Andrew. What I am saying is it does not do aswell when you start to fleece it feed it etc. On the whole more damage is done that way. This country is very wet. Palms rot in winter wet. Alot of the time its not the cold but the cold winter wet that sees them off. Spear pull is rotting in the growing point. water is needed for that to happen. Reducing airflow by covering increases the likelehood. If you are thinking about protection, the only thing I did last year was mulching the palms very very thickly with bark. I did not do some of the palms by the grass and they all suffered frond damage and one spear pulled. When I mulched all ok.

Grub, I agree that rural areas might struggle to grow this. Why?

They are opened and exposed to the wind. They do not get benefits of urban heat.

What you can do to protect palms imo:

Overhead Canopy cover, i.e Trees woodland setting. (Radiation frosts) protection from the rain

High Hedges. Hedges are far better then fences. Fences can often make it worse as they do not dissipate the wind. Hedges absorb the brunt of the wind but are not solid and therefore some wind gets through, but most does not. Wind will hit a fence, but because it is solid will be driven over the fence at a faster speed..bit like an eddy.

Heavy Mulch, medium which will drain easily. Light so it allows some air in. Not prone to compaction. IMO bark is ideal. On cold days I would go out and assess. The top layer of bark would be frozen, but underneath felt so much warmer and not frozen. It also traps heat.

Regular dose of palmbooster during the growing period for those that require it, to establish good root system. I would not feed Phoenix canariensis_CIDP

Size of the palm

Drainage. My garden slopes from east to west, this definately helps. Raised beds. loads of sharp sand, to allow this while the palm is getting established. Digging really deep to do this, digging wide aswell. For plants that require high drainage I add half bricks and crockery to allow for more drainage. Avoid compaction of the soil (watch where you walk)
Conifers
Posts: 13147
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:11 pm
Location: Northumbs

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Conifers »

Regular dose of palmbooster during the growing period for those that require it, to establish good root system. I would not feed Phoenix canariensis_CIDP
If you would not feed Phoenix canariensis_CIDP, why add "palmbooster" - is that not a fertiliser? If not, what is it?
Adrian

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Adrian »

Palmbooster is purely a root stimulant and not a fertiliser, it isnt feeding the palm, of course the more root then the more take up of nutrients.
Foliar feeding with it is unlikely to do anything at all.
sam140

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by sam140 »

Mistake i made last winter with my Phoenix canariensis_CIDP was to tie fronds together and leave it like that for entire winter. :roll:
Attachments
Phoenix canariensis_CIDP - middle fronds half rotted but otherwise fine
Phoenix canariensis_CIDP - middle fronds half rotted but otherwise fine
sam140

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by sam140 »

Hi adrian white, Phoenix canariensis_CIDP will grow well in your area, being in a heat island. I have seen a number of large ones in and around north london. There is a 4metre plant in South Woodford that looks great.
Conifers
Posts: 13147
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:11 pm
Location: Northumbs

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Conifers »

Adrian wrote:Palmbooster is purely a root stimulant and not a fertiliser, it isnt feeding the palm, of course the more root then the more take up of nutrients.
Foliar feeding with it is unlikely to do anything at all.
Ingredients?
Adrian

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Adrian »

Ingrediants ? No idea.

Sam, tying your Phoenix canariensis_CIDP fronds together didnt cause the damage, I do it every year and Ive only had damage from last winter and that was due to -9s not tying the leaves up.
sam140

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by sam140 »

I agree adrian, but I think it was a combination of both the low temps and the lack of airflow. I think it would be more beneficial to untie the fronds during milder spells to allow airflow which I was too lazy to do last winter.
sam140

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by sam140 »

Hi Adrian, I was a little vague in my earlier post. I was referring to the new fronds emerging from the centre spear. Its not a great photo to show my point.
Superted

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Superted »

Having read all the answers Im still a little confused.

Am i right in saying its not a hardy palm, but with a little luck it can be kept alive for a number of years? A gamble really, but worth a try as they are so inexpensive?
AndrewBird

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by AndrewBird »

They are not very hardy but I would agree with everyone here and say try to grow one or two or three:lol:

I have bought 4 from B&Q they are very very very cheap so worth a go. I havent plated mine yet but its best to plant them in random places to try and find the best place they like to grow icon_cheers icon_cheers icon_cheers
Superted

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Superted »

Thank you for the advice Andrew. I will probably give one a try in that case, but i think I'll place it rather than planting it randomly.

Are the small B&Q ones good value or are they simply too small to be realistic?

Ted
stephenprudence

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by stephenprudence »

They very rarely die here, if they do it's because they are sighted in wet soils (and die from rot), or they are very small seedlings and take batterings from the wind.

There are a few large ones in the Wallasey area, and a few large ones in Birkenhead.
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