Hardiness debate losely around Phoenix canariensis

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stephenprudence

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by stephenprudence »

Completely possible David... it may have well be in a global cooling period that Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's acquired their hardiness. If you think about it Strelitzias (reginae, nicolai etc) probably live in a similar climate in South Africa to that of the Canary Islands (nights are probably a little cooler than the Canary Islands where the Strelitzia originates from yet it has a comparable hardiness of approximately -3C and South Africa is technically closer to the Polar regions of Antarctica so there must have been something in it's history which caused a 'hardening up' of this frost free date palm that we see today
AndrewBird

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by AndrewBird »

stephenprudence wrote:Completely possible David... it may have well be in a global cooling period that Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's acquired their hardiness. If you think about it Strelitzias (reginae, nicolai etc) probably live in a similar climate in South Africa to that of the Canary Islands (nights are probably a little cooler than the Canary Islands where the Strelitzia originates from yet it has a comparable hardiness of approximately -3C and South Africa is technically closer to the Polar regions of Antarctica so there must have been something in it's history which caused a 'hardening up' of this frost free date palm that we see today
Sounds right to me
Henry

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Henry »

Adrian we all kind of get the picture now, you can't grow CID palms!!!!!! If you look on the net long enough you get find any chart/scale/graph of information you want be it right or wrong.
Would your time be better spent on finding exotics you can grow in newcastle. Sorry to be blunt about it.
Jellybob

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Jellybob »

Again, this thread typifies the problems that forums seem to be suffering. No one is learning nothing from what is being said anymore in this post. It's not particularly interesting. Any subject in regards to Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's has been covered tonnes, use the search. I don't know about you but I would be interested in how Adrian's big palm has recovered. How Cathy's one got on. Those things are specific and we can deduce recovery rates, does the warm weather help a little, a lot. The thread on GOTE about a palm in Jersey, a nice fined. It is becoming a simple list of the mundane and things have changed for the worse it would seem. I am interested in Dave's Washy, surly the heat is helping that. In terms of palm gardens what do I want to see? Inspirational ideas, palms growing ever larger. How plants never intended for the UK have developed. What has thrived, what is not worth persisting with. For example, the queen palm I have has been faster than what I have been lead to believe. It was planted outside last September. It has pushed out one full frond and has sent a new one half the size of a full one. Stick that in your pipe Mr. the text book says it won't grow here. Alright, I don't expect it to look like the ones I saw in Spain and I expect to loss it every-time the temp drops, but thats what this kind of gardening is about. Faster even than the Queen is my P TVT. Will it get through this winter? I hope, and I want to post these things on here. So please, get back to the old days!!
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bodster
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Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by bodster »

I dont think you can blame Adrian for the winter weather Henry! If you did some research you'd find that the vast majority of CIDPs down here got hit by a really bad cold air pocket and have all suffered severe damage. Mine suffered a bit less than Adrians but thats dwn to luck and the site of my garden more than skill
themes

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by themes »

Jellybob wrote:Again, this thread typifies the problems that forums seem to be suffering. No one is learning nothing from what is being said anymore in this post. It's not particularly interesting. Any subject in regards to Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's has been covered tonnes, use the search. I don't know about you but I would be interested in how Adrian's big palm has recovered. How Cathy's one got on. Those things are specific and we can deduce recovery rates, does the warm weather help a little, a lot. The thread on GOTE about a palm in Jersey, a nice fined. It is becoming a simple list of the mundane and things have changed for the worse it would seem. I am interested in Dave's Washy, surly the heat is helping that. In terms of palm gardens what do I want to see? Inspirational ideas, palms growing ever larger. How plants never intended for the UK have developed. What has thrived, what is not worth persisting with. For example, the queen palm I have has been faster than what I have been lead to believe. It was planted outside last September. It has pushed out one full frond and has sent a new one half the size of a full one. Stick that in your pipe Mr. the text book says it won't grow here. Alright, I don't expect it to look like the ones I saw in Spain and I expect to loss it every-time the temp drops, but thats what this kind of gardening is about. Faster even than the Queen is my P TVT. Will it get through this winter? I hope, and I want to post these things on here. So please, get back to the old days!!
I agree with many of these points. The search function is not being utilised enough, and the same questions seem to arise. Phoenix canariensis_CIDP will always get loads of mentions as it is one of the most common palms on sale in the UK. If your determined the palm will not grow, don't grow it. Its not going to stop me. small ones came through winter fine.
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bodster
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Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by bodster »

Perhaps theres a simpler approach. If you dont want to read Phoenix canariensis_CIDP threads - dont :)
themes

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by themes »

bodster wrote:Perhaps theres a simpler approach. If you dont want to read Phoenix canariensis_CIDP threads - dont :)
I suppose Martin. My point is that a member asks a question, gets an answer from the forum. They do not agree with the responses, so why post the question, and keep saying the answer? icon_scratch

I would like the quality of the information here to improve. I do not think this long thread helps much. Ok I hold my hands up icon_cheers I can confuse matters, but I do chip in sometimes. Nothing here that I do not already know.
Birmingham Chris

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Birmingham Chris »

perhaps we could rename the thread 'the weather of my childhood'? Then no-one need be upset!

:D
Jellybob

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Jellybob »

bodster, you are missing the point. I do enjoy reading about Phoenix canariensis_CIDP's, it's a popular and easy to get hold of palm. But read back through this lot and what have you learnt? I know what I have learnt......that if I am tired and want an early night, I'll read this thread from the beginning.

All I am adding is that through the search option you will learn vast amounts of information. And perhaps we have very little to say anymore. I mean, day to day, what really changes in your garden? Basjoo grows fast and pups...done that. Your palms in hot weather move a few cm's or possibley inches each week....done that. Dicksonia antarctica's are slow growing and need a lot of water....yes? Take a photo now, then again in 5 years and wow, monster growth. Take a photo of your kids and guess what, in 5 years they too will have grown!! It's true. I reckon I might leave posting for a while...unless something gets my goat....
Henry

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Henry »

bodster wrote:I dont think you can blame Adrian for the winter weather Henry! If you did some research you'd find that the vast majority of CIDPs down here got hit by a really bad cold air pocket and have all suffered severe damage. Mine suffered a bit less than Adrians but thats dwn to luck and the site of my garden more than skill
I certainly don't blame Adrian for the weather, I never mentioned the weather. Why would I want to do "some research" for your area? I'm in Yorkshire! You can find lots of information on the net, but its only as good as the person who wrote it or collected the data. Saying something won't grow in an area based on a few pieces of information is not a definative answer, the place in where it is planted is more revalant. I do research for all the plants I get, and choose the plants accordingly.
My posting was actually mean't to be light hearted comment, nothing more or less at Adrian. I think your reading in to it alittle too much in to it.
There are loads of species that would survive up there or if Phoenix canariensis_CIDP is the one you want then why not ask other members how they get theirs to grow?
AndrewBird

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by AndrewBird »

phoenix is not really hardy but some people if they are lucky can keep them alive. i had some but took them back, but now i have bought some smallones form b&Q. dave told me that where i live i should be lucky if i try them in random places tsome might grow.icon_thumleft icon_thumleft

dont plant them too near to the wall though as they can make it fall over. :lol:
Superted

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Superted »

As these palms are fairly inexpensive but also it seems difficult to get established from a small size are they still a good beginners palm?
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Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by Dave Brown »

Hi Superted, and welcome to the forum icon_salut

It seems if you believe they are hardy and just plonk them out you stand a reasonable chance of them coming through most winters in most areas. If you don't believe they are hardy and start to molly coddle, you'll probably lose them. Rotting through wrapping against cold is one of the biggest killers :roll:
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Dave
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themes

Re: Phoenix canariensis in cool temperate regions

Post by themes »

Dave Brown wrote:Hi Superted, and welcome to the forum icon_salut

It seems if you believe they are hardy and just plonk them out you stand a reasonable chance of them coming through most winters in most areas. If you don't believe they are hardy and start to molly coddle, you'll probably lose them. Rotting through wrapping against cold is one of the biggest killers :roll:
Totally agree with this. Small ones plonked in the ground. No feed. No extra drainage. Came through winter fine.

Treat them mean, keep them keen. A good approach to alot of things :wink:
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