overwintering Ensete outdoors
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This area is for Reference and discussion of plant hardiness, overwintering methods and tips, and planr protection.
This area is for Reference and discussion of plant hardiness, overwintering methods and tips, and planr protection.
Re: overwintering Ensette outdoors
Excellent growth in the pot Plan B Got to get mine out of the ground so hanging on until last minute.
Which ever 'plan' you have just ensure it's frost free and well ventilated
Which ever 'plan' you have just ensure it's frost free and well ventilated
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Re: overwintering Ensette outdoors
Sorry been doing a trianing course and missed these posts.lucienc wrote:I'd agree, have lost plain green's in the greenhouse whilst a tiny tandarra red (and all the normal maurelli) survive in there no worries. Also lost a Hiniba in the greenhouse last winter.DaveP wrote:I don't know whether anyone else has noticed this, but 'Maurelii' and 'Montbelliardii' (esp. ''Montbeliardii'') appear to be considerably hardier than the ordinary green species. I've never lost either of the coloured forms outside over winter, but find the green form very prone to rotting away in early spring no matter what measures I take.
I have been reading up on Enset cultivation in Ethiopia and it is a very intersting subject, mainly as these are cultivated for food crops rather than just for the ornamentals markets. the by product of the food cultivation is a more hardy set of cultivars.
Ensete ventricusum (wild form) which grows from seed. Is the least hardy of the Ensete ventricosum tribe. All the cultivars, 60 or so, of which Maurelii and Montbeliadii are two, are more hardy, and have been bred to yield the food starch at higher altitudes in the Ethipian mountains. Appearently it is a trade off with higher tannins in the plant giving better frost tolerance, but more bitter food. The sweetest are the least hardy (greenest)
So what we have experience, as I have found is that the wild form (seed grown) needs to be kept a few degrees above freezing to survive, where as the red forms, and maybe Tandarra Red is a third cultivar, are good to several degrees below. My 'Montbeliardii' surviving -4C under cover last winter.
I'm rewriting my Ensete webpages now as the information they currently contain is old and inaccurate
Best regards
Dave
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Dave
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Re: overwintering Ensette outdoors
Interesting thoughts on the tannins and look forward to checking the update Dave.
Over-wintering outdoors does make it easier
Check out the lifting gear on the 24th October 2009 photos on this link
http://www.bananenhobby.de/michaela.htm
The text also mentions 5 men involved in moving the 'beast'.
Over-wintering outdoors does make it easier
Check out the lifting gear on the 24th October 2009 photos on this link
http://www.bananenhobby.de/michaela.htm
The text also mentions 5 men involved in moving the 'beast'.
- Dave Brown
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Re: overwintering Ensette outdoors
That is a beauty Dave
This is the translated version
It is good that they talk about what they think went wrong. ie with the bending od the stem. Personally I think using the lights probably caused the curvature. I would take all the petolies off to avoid trapped water.
This is the translated version
It is good that they talk about what they think went wrong. ie with the bending od the stem. Personally I think using the lights probably caused the curvature. I would take all the petolies off to avoid trapped water.
Best regards
Dave
_________________________________________________
Roll on summer.....
http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk
Dave
_________________________________________________
Roll on summer.....
http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk
- Dave Brown
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Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors
I think a case of positive feedback here. Am I creating my own science
I was looking into the connections between polyphenols, tannins and frost hardiness and my search turned up this. 4th page listed was about Ensete, I thought I'm on to something here Until I realised it was our own page
Maybe it is not researched yet, or more likely not in public. Seems most plant research and discussion goes on behind closed doors.
I was looking into the connections between polyphenols, tannins and frost hardiness and my search turned up this. 4th page listed was about Ensete, I thought I'm on to something here Until I realised it was our own page
Maybe it is not researched yet, or more likely not in public. Seems most plant research and discussion goes on behind closed doors.
Best regards
Dave
_________________________________________________
Roll on summer.....
http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk
Dave
_________________________________________________
Roll on summer.....
http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk
Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors
Checked out the full translation, just the storage and being on it's side would probably cause the bend. I'll worry about that if I get one to that size
As for tannins and other chemicals to increase frost hardiness. It could be a biological intervention in the form of Genetic modification rather than chemistry.
As for tannins and other chemicals to increase frost hardiness. It could be a biological intervention in the form of Genetic modification rather than chemistry.
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Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors
If they wedged it up at the top of the trunk rather than supporting it all the way along that would have caused it to bend over a period of time. I think they way they have it this time looks better supported. Also I would be inclined to turn it every few weeksDave in Warrington wrote:Checked out the full translation, just the storage and being on it's side would probably cause the bend. I'll worry about that if I get one to that size
I'm not talking about modifying the plant. Just a comment written was that the tannin rich ones were the most frost tolerant, but tended to be bitter tasting. Sounds a bit like Oranges, the sweet sinensis ones are the least hardy. If we could associate very dark colour with hardiness, they would be the ones to look for. However, I did also read that plants change as temps rise or fall so that Ensete Maurelii is almost green in warm climates, and darkens in cold. In which case look for an almost black one in winterDave in Warrington wrote: As for tannins and other chemicals to increase frost hardiness. It could be a biological intervention in the form of Genetic modification rather than chemistry.
I've updated the Ensete ventricosum page HERE The Ensete cultivars page is still under construction. Also there is an Ensete propagation page coming but still researching the conditions the Ethiopians use
Best regards
Dave
_________________________________________________
Roll on summer.....
http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk
Dave
_________________________________________________
Roll on summer.....
http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk
Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors
Have finally decided to leave my ensete maurelii planted in the ground covered by my temporary plastic greenhouse. (I know, its against all the excellent advice given to me here - especially from you Dave, sorry, but I really want to try this. Just consider me an errant child who goes against parental wisdom only to find their parents were right all along! No doubt in spring I'll have one dead ensete and will be posting here cap in hand, tail between legs etc,. Feel free to ground me with no tv for week!)
The "greenhouse" has so far survived one gale and is secured by the normal guy ropes but also by cords inside (from the plastic corner fixings which have tie-eyes) these cords are fastened to a very heavy pot with an agave. I have also run cord along the all frame bars so they can't separate but still allows some movement.
The main purpose of this exercise was to protect my Echium candecans, but in so doing, it also covers a musella and my ensete. I am just keeping my fingers crossed for an exceptionally mild winter in Torbay!
Edit: BTW Dave, the maurelii is not gutating so much now. Increased the ventilation a bit, but perhaps, also, the ground beneath the cover has dried a little, but both the ensete and the musella are planted quite near the perimeter, so not sure. The ground, tself, is cover by landscape fabric.
best
weve
Photos: (i am trying a new compression program to keep the file sizes really small, so image quality may suffer!)
The "greenhouse" has so far survived one gale and is secured by the normal guy ropes but also by cords inside (from the plastic corner fixings which have tie-eyes) these cords are fastened to a very heavy pot with an agave. I have also run cord along the all frame bars so they can't separate but still allows some movement.
The main purpose of this exercise was to protect my Echium candecans, but in so doing, it also covers a musella and my ensete. I am just keeping my fingers crossed for an exceptionally mild winter in Torbay!
Edit: BTW Dave, the maurelii is not gutating so much now. Increased the ventilation a bit, but perhaps, also, the ground beneath the cover has dried a little, but both the ensete and the musella are planted quite near the perimeter, so not sure. The ground, tself, is cover by landscape fabric.
best
weve
Photos: (i am trying a new compression program to keep the file sizes really small, so image quality may suffer!)
Last edited by weve on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Dave Brown
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Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors
It's worth a shot Weve nothing ventured, nothing gained.... but pay special attention to humidity/ventilation, keep humidity low and ventilation high. May be worth puncturing the leaf stalks to allow water to drain. Keep the ground as dry as possible, and keep us updated
Best regards
Dave
_________________________________________________
Roll on summer.....
http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk
Dave
_________________________________________________
Roll on summer.....
http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk
Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors
Ha Weve, your one very brave man there,I wish you success there in Torquay,
I all so wish and hope for a mild winter this time around, I have a Eicum that is staying out due to it's size and height,I've yet to get one to flower and as mine is now peeping over my 4ft fence with a stem as nearly as thick as my whist I am really hoping it will survive winter, think of mine and I will think of yours, but please keep us all up to date, as your have to keep popping in on it to see that it's not going rotting in there or that mildew has not set in due to poor air movement
I all so wish and hope for a mild winter this time around, I have a Eicum that is staying out due to it's size and height,I've yet to get one to flower and as mine is now peeping over my 4ft fence with a stem as nearly as thick as my whist I am really hoping it will survive winter, think of mine and I will think of yours, but please keep us all up to date, as your have to keep popping in on it to see that it's not going rotting in there or that mildew has not set in due to poor air movement
Last edited by Nick on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors
Will do Dave, re ventilation. Have already punctured some leaf stalks (with no ill effects on the leaves so far) Will now do the rest. Thanks for the reminder!
best
weve
best
weve
Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors
Sorry Nick, missed your post whilst I was replying to Dave!
Your Echium sounds much bigger than mine. Lost a small one last winter (in its first year) in just one night (-6c, i think). replaced it and the newer one has grown better and is larger than last years. No flowers either, but it is putting on new growth inside the "greenhouse", so perhaps hope for flowers in a year or so (if it survives!)
There was a photo posted here sometime ago of a large one growing against a wall in Scotland, so it must be possible. I'll keep my fingers crossed for yours as well!
best
weve
Your Echium sounds much bigger than mine. Lost a small one last winter (in its first year) in just one night (-6c, i think). replaced it and the newer one has grown better and is larger than last years. No flowers either, but it is putting on new growth inside the "greenhouse", so perhaps hope for flowers in a year or so (if it survives!)
There was a photo posted here sometime ago of a large one growing against a wall in Scotland, so it must be possible. I'll keep my fingers crossed for yours as well!
best
weve