overwintering Ensete outdoors

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Dave in Warrington

Re: overwintering Ensette outdoors

Post by Dave in Warrington »

Excellent growth in the pot Plan B icon_thumleft Got to get mine out of the ground so hanging on until last minute.
Which ever 'plan' you have just ensure it's frost free and well ventilated icon_salut
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Dave Brown
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Re: overwintering Ensette outdoors

Post by Dave Brown »

lucienc wrote:
DaveP wrote:I don't know whether anyone else has noticed this, but 'Maurelii' and 'Montbelliardii' (esp. ''Montbeliardii'') appear to be considerably hardier than the ordinary green species. I've never lost either of the coloured forms outside over winter, but find the green form very prone to rotting away in early spring no matter what measures I take.
I'd agree, have lost plain green's in the greenhouse whilst a tiny tandarra red (and all the normal maurelli) survive in there no worries. Also lost a Hiniba in the greenhouse last winter.
Sorry been doing a trianing course and missed these posts. :roll:

I have been reading up on Enset cultivation in Ethiopia and it is a very intersting subject, mainly as these are cultivated for food crops rather than just for the ornamentals markets. :wink: the by product of the food cultivation is a more hardy set of cultivars.

Ensete ventricusum (wild form) which grows from seed. Is the least hardy of the Ensete ventricosum tribe. All the cultivars, 60 or so, of which Maurelii and Montbeliadii are two, are more hardy, and have been bred to yield the food starch at higher altitudes in the Ethipian mountains. Appearently it is a trade off with higher tannins in the plant giving better frost tolerance, but more bitter food. The sweetest are the least hardy (greenest)

So what we have experience, as I have found is that the wild form (seed grown) needs to be kept a few degrees above freezing to survive, where as the red forms, and maybe Tandarra Red is a third cultivar, are good to several degrees below. My 'Montbeliardii' surviving -4C under cover last winter.

I'm rewriting my Ensete webpages now as the information they currently contain is old and inaccurate :wink:
Best regards
Dave
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Dave in Warrington

Re: overwintering Ensette outdoors

Post by Dave in Warrington »

Interesting thoughts on the tannins and look forward to checking the update Dave. icon_thumleft

Over-wintering outdoors does make it easier :roll:
Check out the lifting gear on the 24th October 2009 photos on this link
http://www.bananenhobby.de/michaela.htm
The text also mentions 5 men involved in moving the 'beast'. :ahhh!:
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Re: overwintering Ensette outdoors

Post by Dave Brown »

That is a beauty Dave icon_thumright

This is the translated version


It is good that they talk about what they think went wrong. ie with the bending od the stem. Personally I think using the lights probably caused the curvature. I would take all the petolies off to avoid trapped water. :wink:
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Dave
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Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors

Post by Dave Brown »

I think a case of positive feedback here. Am I creating my own science :roll:

I was looking into the connections between polyphenols, tannins and frost hardiness and my search turned up this.
Polyphenols and tannins.jpg
4th page listed was about Ensete, I thought I'm on to something here icon_thumright Until I realised it was our own page :roll:

Maybe it is not researched yet, or more likely not in public. Seems most plant research and discussion goes on behind closed doors.
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Dave
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Dave in Warrington

Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors

Post by Dave in Warrington »

Checked out the full translation, just the storage and being on it's side would probably cause the bend. I'll worry about that if I get one to that size icon_scratch

As for tannins and other chemicals to increase frost hardiness. It could be a biological intervention in the form of Genetic modification rather than chemistry. :ahhh!:
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Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors

Post by Dave Brown »

Dave in Warrington wrote:Checked out the full translation, just the storage and being on it's side would probably cause the bend. I'll worry about that if I get one to that size icon_scratch
If they wedged it up at the top of the trunk rather than supporting it all the way along that would have caused it to bend over a period of time. I think they way they have it this time looks better supported. Also I would be inclined to turn it every few weeks :wink:
Dave in Warrington wrote: As for tannins and other chemicals to increase frost hardiness. It could be a biological intervention in the form of Genetic modification rather than chemistry. :ahhh!:
I'm not talking about modifying the plant. Just a comment written was that the tannin rich ones were the most frost tolerant, but tended to be bitter tasting. Sounds a bit like Oranges, the sweet sinensis ones are the least hardy. If we could associate very dark colour with hardiness, they would be the ones to look for. However, I did also read that plants change as temps rise or fall so that Ensete Maurelii is almost green in warm climates, and darkens in cold. In which case look for an almost black one in winter :wink:

I've updated the Ensete ventricosum page HERE The Ensete cultivars page is still under construction. Also there is an Ensete propagation page coming but still researching the conditions the Ethiopians use icon_thumright
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Dave
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weve

Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors

Post by weve »

Have finally decided to leave my ensete maurelii planted in the ground covered by my temporary plastic greenhouse. (I know, its against all the excellent advice given to me here - especially from you Dave, sorry, but I really want to try this. Just consider me an errant child who goes against parental wisdom only to find their parents were right all along! No doubt in spring I'll have one dead ensete and will be posting here cap in hand, tail between legs etc,. Feel free to ground me with no tv for week!) :)

The "greenhouse" has so far survived one gale and is secured by the normal guy ropes but also by cords inside (from the plastic corner fixings which have tie-eyes) these cords are fastened to a very heavy pot with an agave. I have also run cord along the all frame bars so they can't separate but still allows some movement.

The main purpose of this exercise was to protect my Echium candecans, but in so doing, it also covers a musella and my ensete. I am just keeping my fingers crossed for an exceptionally mild winter in Torbay!

Edit: BTW Dave, the maurelii is not gutating so much now. Increased the ventilation a bit, but perhaps, also, the ground beneath the cover has dried a little, but both the ensete and the musella are planted quite near the perimeter, so not sure. The ground, tself, is cover by landscape fabric.
best

weve
Photos: (i am trying a new compression program to keep the file sizes really small, so image quality may suffer!)
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Last edited by weve on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors

Post by Dave Brown »

It's worth a shot Weve nothing ventured, nothing gained.... but pay special attention to humidity/ventilation, keep humidity low and ventilation high. May be worth puncturing the leaf stalks to allow water to drain. Keep the ground as dry as possible, and keep us updated :wink:
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Dave
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Nick

Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors

Post by Nick »

Ha Weve, your one very brave man there,I wish you success there in Torquay,
I all so wish and hope for a mild winter this time around, I have a Eicum that is staying out due to it's size and height,I've yet to get one to flower and as mine is now peeping over my 4ft fence with a stem as nearly as thick as my whist I am really hoping it will survive winter, think of mine and I will think of yours, but please keep us all up to date, as your have to keep popping in on it to see that it's not going rotting in there or that mildew has not set in due to poor air movement :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

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Last edited by Nick on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
weve

Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors

Post by weve »

Will do Dave, re ventilation. Have already punctured some leaf stalks (with no ill effects on the leaves so far) Will now do the rest. Thanks for the reminder!
best
weve
weve

Re: overwintering Ensete outdoors

Post by weve »

Sorry Nick, missed your post whilst I was replying to Dave!

Your Echium sounds much bigger than mine. Lost a small one last winter (in its first year) in just one night (-6c, i think). replaced it and the newer one has grown better and is larger than last years. No flowers either, but it is putting on new growth inside the "greenhouse", so perhaps hope for flowers in a year or so (if it survives!)

There was a photo posted here sometime ago of a large one growing against a wall in Scotland, so it must be possible. I'll keep my fingers crossed for yours as well!
best
weve
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