TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer 'Rex') clone recognition

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Dave Brown
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TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer 'Rex') clone recognition

Post by Dave Brown » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:06 pm

I have 2 different clones or varieties of T'Rex, one coming from Carolpz which has a very deeply grooved leaf, and another from Phoenix which is a broader, flatter leaf.

Initially I thought you would only be able to tell the two apart when the leaves were larger, but having grown cuttings from both the differences seem to appear from a very early stage, with a different leaf shape.

The Deeply Grooved form has young leaves which I can only describe as Grapevine like with not very defined bi-lobes.
20100314 TRex Vtleaf.jpg
The broader flatter form has young leaves that are much more digitised with clearly defined bi-lobes.
20100314 TRex Flatleaf.jpg
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bobbyd44

Re: Tetrapanax T'Rex clone recognition

Post by bobbyd44 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:29 pm

wen you say cuttings dave what type do you mean?? they root or pups or stem?? cheerss

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Re: Tetrapanax T'Rex clone recognition

Post by Dave Brown » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:45 pm

Root, I don't think they take from stem cuttings :wink:
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bobbyd44

Re: Tetrapanax T'Rex clone recognition

Post by bobbyd44 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:51 pm

cheers dave

grub

Re: Tetrapanax T'Rex clone recognition

Post by grub » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:54 pm

Mine from Carol hasn't survived the winter by the looks of things Dave :( , but the other from Steve the Lizard is just starting to move icon_cheers

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Re: Tetrapanax T'Rex clone recognition

Post by Dave Brown » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:18 pm

Mine form Carolpz is fine down to-5.6C here but maybe we have found their hardiness limit, as I think you said you had -9C. Simon also had a Carolpz TRex and thinks he has lost it.... probably to ground level. I don't think he is very far from you in Country wide terms :wink:
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Re: TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer) clone recognition

Post by simon » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:01 pm

I don't think I have lost it Dave, but the growth points have certainly had it. The rest of the stem seems firm so hopefully they will shoot from the next node down.

grub

Re: TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer) clone recognition

Post by grub » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:06 pm

I'm not sure how low I did get in the end Dave, every time it got to -9C the batteries failed so I'm not sure how bad it really got, Benson of course is only about 20 miles away and we all know what they clocked :? (It is a frost hollow though and they can keep their -18C to themselves as far as I'm concerned :lol: ). One of my sensors is acting up though, I got up this morning to see it was -23C at the bottom of the garden :lol: , I should have taken a piccie I suppose :lol:

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Re: TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer) clone recognition

Post by Dave Brown » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:32 am

simon wrote:I don't think I have lost it Dave, but the growth points have certainly had it. The rest of the stem seems firm so hopefully they will shoot from the next node down.
Sorry Simon :oops: Mine had the flowers stems rot off and now looks like it is producing two growing points from just below the old flowering point. I recall Melissa's has multiple stems.
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Re: TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer) clone recognition

Post by Dave Brown » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:01 pm

Update.

I've been checking the for information on the Tetrapanax papyrifer clones, and came across The Tropical Centre which is a US plant supplier. In their newsletter from 2006, they talk about propagating Steroidal Giant, and have a couple of pics which I have lifted here as easier to see rather than find on their newsletter.

The thing is that the young plants look like the Grape vine leaf shape of the Caropz clone.
tetrapanax steriol giant.jpg
tetrapanax steriol giant.jpg (36.29 KiB) Viewed 6404 times
Also the mature plant has the deeply groved leaves, so there is a fair chance that the Carolpz clone is in fact Steroidal Giant :wink:
tetrapanax steriol giant2.jpg
tetrapanax steriol giant2.jpg (36.03 KiB) Viewed 6404 times
This is my Carolpz clone
270509 TRex 01.jpg
This is the variegated plant that my root cuttings came from
18102008 Phoenix V TRex.jpg
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weve

Re: TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer) clone recognition

Post by weve » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:12 pm

Dave
Thanks for the investigation into this icon_thumright, confusing issue, but I can't quite get my head round the distinction yet icon_scratch (altho' that might be just down to me!...............)

My Mulu one looks very much like your Carolpz clone. (as does Mark Everson's going by his great T. rex gallery which (i think) originated from Crug.)

My young plant leaves look quite digitate to me and yet are (i think) the deeply grooved carolpz type now mature.

There is definitely a distinction in young plant leaves tho'. All the small rexes for sale at Desert to Jungle that I have seen certainly have slightly different shaped leaves (grapevine type? to my one when small

My Young Plant digitate type???
HPIM1310sopti.jpg
Mow Mature Plant (grooved? carolpz type??)
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HPIM2356sopti.jpg
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Re: TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer) clone recognition

Post by Chad » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:23 pm

Dave,

I think Carols plant is closer to the 'original' plant named as Rex than the Mulu plant. Most of the 'Cornish Rex' can be traced back to Pine Lodge, either directly or indirectly. Here follows a slightly altered re-print of an old post on this site [from me]. 'Rex' was a seed collection and so not clonal.

'I'm doing this from memory, because the Kobakoba site has gone, and some of the people who were involved have told me different things.

'Crug introduced seed from several places. Both 'Empress' and 'Rex' are from their introductions. Those called 'Rex' have the collection number BSWJ1925. The 'Empress strain' was from a separate site of collection [ B&SWJ7135].

'The 'Cornish Rex' came via Tom Hudson at Tregrehan who had had some of the original Crug seed [or seedlings?]. His almost neighbour is Pine Lodge who propagated commercially, and is where most of us got ours from. I think Tom gave plants to Tremenheere early on and that is where Paul Spraklin is supposed to have coined the name in a joke to Neil Armstrong [they have both told me this].

'Or it was the plants at Powis Castle that were first named [the Kobakoba site said that]. They had come from the same [BSWJ1925] seed collection anyway. Crug cottoned on to the name, and Mulu were in there propagating their plant from that collection early. Crug named 'Empress' as a sort of consort to 'Rex'. Crug propagate mainly from seed and since seed set is difficult in the UK the 'Empress' strain will not be for sale again as they have run out. 'Rex' - as Carol will tell you, will sucker enough for commercial propagation. I am told that for the discerning grower, 'Empress' was the better plant with finer indumentum and a better garden plant because it didn't sucker - and was therefore better behaved.

'Steroid Giant was an independent American introduction, but seems to fall within the range of form that 'Rex' covers - I don't know who introduced it.'

Chad.

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Re: TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer) clone recognition

Post by simon » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:24 pm

And as Chad said recently in another thread "Steroidal Giant... falls within the range we know as 'Rex' [which is a seed collection and so not all identical]."

Being from a (or several) seed collection(s) they are not all clones of the same plant, rather groups of clones from original seed grown plants, so it is not this simple because there is natural variation from within the seed collection.

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Re: TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer) clone recognition

Post by Chad » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:27 pm

Incidentally, Clive at Hardy Exotics has about ten different forms. Several of them would count as 'Rex' but are noticeably different from each other, and the leaf size and shape in any one plant vary according to how they are grown!

Do you think they could grow flat under cover and grooved in the open?

Chad.

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Re: TRex (Tetrapanax papyrifer) clone recognition

Post by Dave Brown » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:16 pm

Thanks for the information Chad and Simon, I think I have heard some of that in the past but not all in one place.

I vaguely recall someone saying they were having difficuly propping Empress as it wouldn't sucker and root cuttings failed :roll:

So let me summerise to make sure I have this correct. As the initial propagation was from seed there is natural variation in the offspring, and that could affect hardiness as well as leaf shape, but as now eveyone is propping by suckers the differing traits are being cloned.

Chad, the flat leaf occurs outside as well. Adrian's monster is a flat leaf. Notice how the lobes overlap each other.
140908 SC Meet 01.jpg
This is one of the cuttings from Steve's variegated plant. This shows the leaves are flat and it had been outside for 3 months. The small plant in front shows how the pot holds them back, as the were the same size 2 months earlier.
280809 TRex in FG.jpg
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