Bottled water around palms.

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karl66
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Bottled water around palms.

Post by karl66 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:41 pm

Can someone explain why & what this does?. karl.

MikeC

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by MikeC » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:42 pm

http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints2/468/

Basically if you put large volumes of water in buckets or bottles around the base of plants such as palms, when the outside temperatures drops from above freezing to below freezing, the water in the bottles give out heat as they freeze.

If you combine this with a large cover such as fleeze (or cotton dust sheets that I prefer), you get some heating that hopefully stops the plant freezing or at least reduces the damage caused by ice crystals.

Hope this makes sense,

Mike

billdango

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by billdango » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:58 pm

It,s what i do every year and it does seem to work.
But i must point out that it doen,t help much if the temperature drops much below -4c.
Even if you wrap the bottles in blankets they don,t stay warm all that long in a howling North East gale.
But any thing is better then nothing and you may have to refill the bottles a couple of times a night.
The weakest point on a palm is the soft bit just at the growing tip so put a nice warm bottle there and it should help i hope.
I will keep forum members informed as i will be doing all what has been discussed above on my Syagrus Romanzoffianum.
Rgds Billdango. icon_thumleft icon_thumleft icon_thumleft icon_thumleft

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Dave Brown
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Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Dave Brown » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:08 pm

The way I look at it..... If you were to wrap the palm completely in water bottles, they would have to freeze solid before the palm started to freeze. Without them the palm start to freeze as soon at the temp adjacent to it drops below freezing.
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Dave
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Vagetarian

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Vagetarian » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:09 pm

Add salt to lower the freezing point, and the temperature range that the bottle works at. :wink:

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Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Dave Brown » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:18 pm

We seem to be going into exactly the same discussion as about a week ago. You want the water to freeze as it gives up heat as it does so. A water bottle @ -2C touching the palm will start to freeze it regardless of whether the fluid is frozen or not. I'll add a link to the other topic as this is like de ja vous

HERE is the previous discussion from 2 weeks ago
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Vagetarian

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Vagetarian » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:34 pm

You don't want the water bottle touching the plant as it thaws either because it's the opposite to freezing, it absorbs energy (heat).

Mr List

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Mr List » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:01 pm

what would be really handy would be a system of connecting 1mx1m panels that could be filled up with water.

Ian Cooke

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Ian Cooke » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:13 pm

billdango wrote:........................
Even if you wrap the bottles in blankets they don,t stay warm all that long in a howling North East gale.........................
But surely if you wrap the bottles in insulation, it will slow the freezing of the water and therefore the production of heat. Also any heat produced will be insulated within the blanket wrapped bottles.

This technique is used for fruit production and water is actually sprayed onto fruit blossom in late spring which then freezes. This latent heat of freezing will be just enough to prevent the blossom and embryonic fruit freezing. I cannot see it working with extreme low temperatures over long freezing periods.

Anyone got a greater grasp of physics to better explain this?

GoggleboxUK

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by GoggleboxUK » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:42 pm

The way I look at it is this:

Bedpans and Hot water bottles have been around for centuroes. If adding heat to an insulated space didn't raise the temperature then these devices wouldn't exist.

Leaving no airgap inside the bottle will help hold the heat longer. Insulating the bottle will help hold the heat longer. Adding many bottles will help hold the heat longer. Filling the bottles with recently boiled water will help hold the heat longer.

This method will only help if the temperatures aren't extreme and the proper insulation is used.

I intend to insulate the poy with a quilt, sandwiching bottles between folds and then covering with thermal blankets, leaving the protection draped rather than completely enclosing the pot to create an airgap which will also hold the heat provided by the bottles. It is my belief that, even at -10c this method should stop the water from freezing over an 8 hour period.

What seems to have been unsaid said far is that the lowest temperature ice can be is 0 degrees and even frozen through bottles inside a quilt and thermal blanket will act as insulation from lower temperatures in the same way as it's warmer inside an igloo than it is outside.

Nigel

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Nigel » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:22 pm

I always wanted to try something different but never got round to it.
How do you stop an outside tap freezing in winter ? Easy, you leave it running slowly because the water in the pipe underground is much warmer.
Therefore, I reckon that if you wrap a hosepipe around a palm trunk and let the water run slowly ( obviously with the end in a drain) it would transfer heat from below ground to the plant, this principal is used ( albeit with efficient heat exchange mechanism) in some new energy efficient central heating techniques for people with big gardens.
I reckon if the hosepipe was inside several layers of fleece it would be better than christmas tree lights or bottles or anything else.
For the well to do you could even hook up the house central heating system with insulated pipe to the palm and uninsulated inside the fleece to release the heat but I think cold water would do the job.

Adrian

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Adrian » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:24 pm

Nigel wrote: I reckon if the hosepipe was inside several layers of fleece it would be better than christmas tree lights or bottles or anything else.
.
You been at that Brazilian cooking lager again ? :lol:

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Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Conifers » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:46 pm

Vagetarian wrote:You don't want the water bottle touching the plant as it thaws either because it's the opposite to freezing, it absorbs energy (heat).
The idea is that you move the frozen bottles away to be thawed elsewhere :wink:

GoggleboxUK

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by GoggleboxUK » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:50 pm

Nigel wrote:I always wanted to try something different but never got round to it.
How do you stop an outside tap freezing in winter ? Easy, you leave it running slowly because the water in the pipe underground is much warmer.
Therefore, I reckon that if you wrap a hosepipe around a palm trunk and let the water run slowly ( obviously with the end in a drain) it would transfer heat from below ground to the plant, this principal is used ( albeit with efficient heat exchange mechanism) in some new energy efficient central heating techniques for people with big gardens.
I reckon if the hosepipe was inside several layers of fleece it would be better than christmas tree lights or bottles or anything else.
For the well to do you could even hook up the house central heating system with insulated pipe to the palm and uninsulated inside the fleece to release the heat but I think cold water would do the job.

Adrian

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Adrian » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:15 pm

This thread is a joke, maybe Dave can get a degree out of this method where he lives but all of you up North who go on about temps of -10c and below, do you really think putting bottles of freezing water around your palms is a great idea ??? Do you think it will get your borderline palms through a winter ? Are you really going to be putting on your slippers and dressing gowns to remove bottles of frozen water early in the morning before they start to thaw ?
Take one bit of advice from me, dont be stupid and go and use rope lights if you want to get added heat.
I cant believe what I read on here sometimes but the trouble is that there are newbies who take it all on board.

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