Bottled water around palms.

User avatar
Yorkshire Kris
Posts: 10160
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:59 am
Location: Rural South Wakefield, Yorkshire Lat 53.64 Long-1.54

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Yorkshire Kris » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:20 pm

Adrian wrote:This thread is a joke, maybe Dave can get a degree out of this method where he lives but all of you up North who go on about temps of -10c and below, do you really think putting bottles of freezing water around your palms is a great idea ??? Do you think it will get your borderline palms through a winter ? Are you really going to be putting on your slippers and dressing gowns to remove bottles of frozen water early in the morning before they start to thaw ?
Take one bit of advice from me, dont be stupid and go and use rope lights if you want to get added heat.
I cant believe what I read on here sometimes but the trouble is that there are newbies who take it all on board.

Yes speak your mind! Rope lights rather than the water changing palaver does seem more realistic. BUT sometimes using rope lights is not possible.
Last edited by Yorkshire Kris on Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nigel

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Nigel » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:30 pm

Adrian wrote:
Nigel wrote: I reckon if the hosepipe was inside several layers of fleece it would be better than christmas tree lights or bottles or anything else.
.
You been at that Brazilian cooking lager again ? :lol:
Its all a question of how much it costs Ade, but the idea is sound. If the tap water has a temp of say 12C and its -10C outside you transfer a lot of heat from the ground.
Or you could spend some serious money on a ground heat pump and system and heat your plants and house for a fraction the cost http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1o6vfM8xRA yes i am bonkers maybe but the idea is sound.
Even if you ran a circular pipe system a metre under the ground and pumped it around the palm in cold weather it would probably work if you had enough pipe.
Last edited by Nigel on Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

GoggleboxUK

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by GoggleboxUK » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:31 pm

Adrian wrote:This thread is a joke, maybe Dave can get a degree out of this method where he lives but all of you up North who go on about temps of -10c and below, do you really think putting bottles of freezing water around your palms is a great idea ??? Do you think it will get your borderline palms through a winter ? Are you really going to be putting on your slippers and dressing gowns to remove bottles of frozen water early in the morning before they start to thaw ?
Take one bit of advice from me, dont be stupid and go and use rope lights if you want to get added heat.
I cant believe what I read on here sometimes but the trouble is that there are newbies who take it all on board.
If you've tried this method and it has failed then feel free to call me stupid but unless you have proof it won't be beneficial then please keep your insults in check.

Yes, I live up North and realise it's harder work keeping plants alive in severe winters than it is down south but I'm certainly not stupid enough to leave plants unprotected after last year.

Adding bottles of hot water to fleece and waterproofing is just another line of defence in my opinion. Belittling new ideas is hardly constructive and if I had the facility to use a rope light don't you think I'd be doing that as well?

:?:

Conifers
Posts: 13147
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:11 pm
Location: Northumbs

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Conifers » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:51 pm

Adrian wrote:This thread is a joke, maybe Dave can get a degree out of this method where he lives but all of you up North who go on about temps of -10c and below, do you really think putting bottles of freezing water around your palms is a great idea ??? Do you think it will get your borderline palms through a winter ? Are you really going to be putting on your slippers and dressing gowns to remove bottles of frozen water early in the morning before they start to thaw ?
Take one bit of advice from me, dont be stupid and go and use rope lights if you want to get added heat.
I cant believe what I read on here sometimes but the trouble is that there are newbies who take it all on board.
Depends on how much water you use. A couple of half-litre drinks bottles won't do much good, but a wall of five-litre containers will.

billdango

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by billdango » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:12 pm

I know it does sound stupid to some forum members but the hot water bottle idea does really work.
In dire emergency it will work for small palms but is pretty useless on big ones but it will buy a little more time in severe cold.
But the only real answer in the end is proper covers and maybe a small greenhouse heater or better still growing plants that don,t keel over with a few degrees of frost?.
rgds billdango. :D :D :D :D

Ian Cooke

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Ian Cooke » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:13 am

I must admit to being very skeptical and even scathing about some of the crack-pot ideas on here but I do recall a sweet old lady who used to garden near Manchester. Each autumn she used to visit her local jumble sales at the end of the afternoon and pick up all the old unwanted woolies. Any slightly tender plants were wrapped in these colourful cast-offs giving her garden a somewhat bizarre but colourful winter display. And it was amazing what borderline exotics she overwintered in this way.

Adrian

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Adrian » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:21 pm

GoggleboxUK wrote:
Adrian wrote:This thread is a joke, maybe Dave can get a degree out of this method where he lives but all of you up North who go on about temps of -10c and below, do you really think putting bottles of freezing water around your palms is a great idea ??? Do you think it will get your borderline palms through a winter ? Are you really going to be putting on your slippers and dressing gowns to remove bottles of frozen water early in the morning before they start to thaw ?
Take one bit of advice from me, dont be stupid and go and use rope lights if you want to get added heat.
I cant believe what I read on here sometimes but the trouble is that there are newbies who take it all on board.
If you've tried this method and it has failed then feel free to call me stupid but unless you have proof it won't be beneficial then please keep your insults in check.

Yes, I live up North and realise it's harder work keeping plants alive in severe winters than it is down south but I'm certainly not stupid enough to leave plants unprotected after last year.

Adding bottles of hot water to fleece and waterproofing is just another line of defence in my opinion. Belittling new ideas is hardly constructive and if I had the facility to use a rope light don't you think I'd be doing that as well?

:?:
Not insults at all just trying to help you out, not belittling new ideas but trying to help you out, easy way out of this isnt it, you put freezing bottles of water around your borderline palms and Ill put a rope light around mine, North v South doesnt matter because you trail it on YOUR borderline palm, be it a Phoenix canariensis_CIDP, Trachycarpus fortunei or Brahea armata and I'll do it on whats borderline here such as my Phoenix can x roeb and we'll see what happens.
Of course you dont have to listen to me, you go for the 'new ideas' and come back here crying next spring.

You say my belittling new ideas isnt constructive, would you rather I sat here and laughed to myself thinking that some members are being led down the path of losing their prized palms because of something they read on a forum.
Id rather put an opinion raised out of a good number of years experience and if some or all choose not to listen then so be it, at least I know I tried.

Sure Id look at new ideas and sure Id try them if I thought they would work.

Now I know full well that large bottles of water can work when the air temperature drops a lot faster than water will cool, thats plainly obvious but having bottles freeze around borderline palms isnt ideal.

I would say that if its impractical to use a rope light then as sure as eggs is eggs its more impractical to use bottles of water that you have to remove and keep refilling every time they freeze.

GoggleboxUK

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by GoggleboxUK » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:39 pm

Adrian wrote:
easy way out of this isnt it, you put freezing bottles of water around your borderline palms and Ill put a rope light around mine,
If you can point to where I've suggested putting freezing bottles of water around a palm I'll take you seriously. That would be a joke.

Suggesting your comparison method is also ruduculous. This would only work if we both tried both methods.

I'm only using bottles of hot water because I don't have an outside socket. You won't need to try bottles of water because you do.

As I've said all along, this is a trial method. I'll let you know how I get on after winter. As you haven't answered the question "have you tried this?" or posted any results of such trials I can assume you are making assumptions. If you can back up your assumptions with scientific data please feel free.

Adrian

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Adrian » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:04 pm

OK so where did I get the 'using freezing water bottles' from, Daves point is that as water freezes it gives off heat.
Great that you think hot water bottles will work, lets take an example then,
at 9.00pm you go out and unwrap your palm and put hot water bottles around it then wrap your palm up again, you get -10c or whatever you get and the bottles are supposed to stay hot all through the night are they, or would you get up every half hour to top them up with hot water, of course youd have to unwrap your palm each time.

Its a joke to think you can keep hot water bottles from freezing at your Northern temps that you say are so much harder than those we have in the South, and if they freeze in the middle of the night then you are effectively putting freezing water around your palm.

You do want you want, I can only advise, you can lead a horse to water but......

As for me backing up my ideas with scientific data, I certainly dont need to do that :lol: why the hell should I :lol: Look around my garden, theres webshots links under all of my posts, you decide if Im getting things pretty close or whether I talk a load of load of shallots.
I dont have to prove anything to anyone :lol:

GoggleboxUK

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by GoggleboxUK » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:10 pm

You call this thread a joke then demonstrate how little you understand what is being discussed then back it up by saying you couldn't care less anyway and claim you are neither ridiculing nor belittling the subject?

Southampton is far from the most challenging location in the UK to grow exotics is it? You practically have Phoenix canariensis_CIDP growing wild down there.

Admittedly you are far more experienced at growing palms than I am but every time I try something new I am gaining experience. I'm learning every day on this forum by listening to members who have tried, suceesed and failed in all kinds of different ways of pushing the envelope. I am more likely to pay attention to those who offer constructive advice and those whse challenges are similar to mine climatically.

Thanks for offering an opinion Adrian but you're really talking more to yourself than you are to me or others in a similar position. This quote from another thread is much more helpful than anything you've offered up in my opinion:
David S wrote:Last year I put a lot of plastic bottles filled with water in my greenhouse. My idea was that water maintains heat well and so would slow the reduction of temperature inside the greenhouse. We had between -10/-8 outside but the unheated greenhouse only went down to -3. I don't know if that is a good result or not but I will be doing the same thing again this year.

Darlo Mark

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Darlo Mark » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:28 pm

Calm down lads! :?

User avatar
The Codfather
Posts: 6436
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:02 pm
Location: Darlington, C.O. Durham

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by The Codfather » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:32 pm

easy tigers.....or it will get locked.
AKA - Martin

Wish list - Big Palms or Dicksonia antarctica's but open to anything really.....Cash Waiting !

Adrian

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Adrian » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:55 pm

Appologies,

Only trying to help though.

End of my involvement in this thread.

Libby

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Libby » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:46 am

I have a rope light and I had no idea they gave off any heat, I am wondering whether to insulate my basjoo and then wrap the light around, although I am not sure my neighbours would be impressed, mind you they think I'm barmy, so why do anything to dispell that! :lol:

Adrian

Re: Bottled water around palms.

Post by Adrian » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:07 am

Libby, turn on your rope light and leave it for half an hour and then hold it and youll find it gives off a gentle heat.
I use rope lights but they are all concealed inside other protection to reduce emitted light, its the heat I want not the light.
Hessian works well draped over a fleece covered light.

Heat cables are the best but these are expensive to buy.

Post Reply