What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Kristen

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Kristen » Sat May 18, 2013 6:55 am

Dave Brown wrote:people really sing the praises of Chicken pellets, and they are roughly 3-3-3
I tried them for the first time last year. I had the best, and most healthy looking, growth ever. The weather was cool and wet though ... so may have nothing to do with the Chicken Poo.
cordyman wrote:So it sounds like miracle grow may actually be pretty good, (bar the blue staining grrrr) always got the impression is was the uninformed mans easy choice from the DIY shed icon_scratch
I switched from Phostrogen to Miracle Gro some years ago (for container grown plants, most of the stuff in the ground got a handful of Growmore balanced fertiliser instead) and my subjective view was that I got better results. Perhaps the higher Nitrogen content gave me more growth, and there was enough everything-else to make the extra growth flower well too.

Last year I used it for container plants as before, but chicken pellets for anything that I planted out (A handful under the rootball, and a handful around the top). I am going to try that again this year.

All seedlings (annuals and the like), once potted on to 9cm get say in a gravel tray of Miracle Gro at 50% strength about once a week / fortnight.

My Brugs (in huge pots) get a handful of Chicken Pellets when they started into growth, and are getting 50% Miracle Gro about 2 - 3 times a week
OxfordNick wrote:Chempak #2 - high nitrogen - [picture of box]
Brilliant, thanks. Why can't T&M put that on their website? <sigh>
Dave Brown wrote:Dim, you can spend a fortune on Bat guano ...
Although the application rates Dim mentioned were very frugal.

I also want to try some Rock Dust for the minerals it contains.

daftbanana

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by daftbanana » Sat May 18, 2013 8:21 am

It's all very confusing as to what works best and I guess some methods will be better for some than others for a whole host of reasons such as location, soil conditions etc. but I've made a conscious effort to stick to purely Miracle Gro at half strength regular and often this year and see what happens, last year, I tried a bit of everything including Grow More granular and chicken poo (the missus complained about the smell of the garden!) but I simply don't want (and can't afford) to spend money all over the place trying everything and anything and not knowing what effect each of them has made on the growth of my plants.

OxfordNick

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by OxfordNick » Sat May 18, 2013 10:04 am

Kristen wrote:
OxfordNick wrote:Chempak #2 - high nitrogen - [picture of box]
Brilliant, thanks. Why can't T&M put that on their website? <sigh>
Possibly because it looks like Ive spent good money on a box of crystallised wee...

Rabbie
Posts: 513
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: N Ireland

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Rabbie » Sat May 18, 2013 2:07 pm

Am planning to mulch once a month with farmyard manure sold at the big sheds. Will only be mulching June, July and August. It will all be dug in at end of season, given the lack heat this month it's hard to say if it's working. :cry:

Vagetarian

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Vagetarian » Sat May 18, 2013 6:39 pm

I think I may have deja vu...

Plant roots absorb inorganic ions (salts). Synthetic fertilisers supply these directly whereas organic fertilisers must first be broken down by soil microbes into said inorganic ions (yes, salts).

Double blind studies and chemical analysis has repeatedly shown no difference between organically grown and inorganically grown produce. No difference whatsoever, except the lowered yield from organic farms.

So, the only good reason to grow organically is one of environmental concerns and symbiotic microbes.

You can buy the most exotic organic fertiliser you want but at the end of the day nitrates are nitrates. It doesn't matter if it's come from a box of Miracle Grow or broken down from bat guano, the plant is taking up an identical molecule either way.

The only thing that sets one fertiliser apart from another are their unique NPK ratios and whether or not they contain micronutrients.

Rabbie
Posts: 513
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: N Ireland

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Rabbie » Sat May 18, 2013 7:50 pm

One difference would be the level of dosing one can do with chemical fertiliser. Also if you live in an area of high rain levels, it can all be washed away in a day, like today. :cry:

cordyman

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by cordyman » Tue May 21, 2013 6:26 pm

Vagetarian wrote:I think I may have deja vu...

Plant roots absorb inorganic ions (salts). Synthetic fertilisers supply these directly whereas organic fertilisers must first be broken down by soil microbes into said inorganic ions (yes, salts).

Double blind studies and chemical analysis has repeatedly shown no difference between organically grown and inorganically grown produce. No difference whatsoever, except the lowered yield from organic farms.

So, the only good reason to grow organically is one of environmental concerns and symbiotic microbes.

You can buy the most exotic organic fertiliser you want but at the end of the day nitrates are nitrates. It doesn't matter if it's come from a box of Miracle Grow or broken down from bat guano, the plant is taking up an identical molecule either way.

The only thing that sets one fertiliser apart from another are their unique NPK ratios and whether or not they contain micronutrients.

Supurb info! In the grand scheme of things in my garden, I have no qualms about weather its organic or manmade, the cheaper and bigger it gets my plants, the better, miracle grow it is then :D

Dim

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Dim » Tue May 21, 2013 6:33 pm

Vagetarian wrote:I think I may have deja vu...

Double blind studies and chemical analysis has repeatedly shown no difference between organically grown and inorganically grown produce. No difference whatsoever, except the lowered yield from organic farms.


You can buy the most exotic organic fertiliser you want but at the end of the day nitrates are nitrates. It doesn't matter if it's come from a box of Miracle Grow or broken down from bat guano, the plant is taking up an identical molecule either way.

The only thing that sets one fertiliser apart from another are their unique NPK ratios and whether or not they contain micronutrients.
not according to this guy .... or the guys who hold the world records for giant pumkins etc .... (and they don't use miracle gro) :lol:


photonbucket

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by photonbucket » Fri May 24, 2013 9:13 pm

That video was crazy! Worth a watch certainly. How do we know whats in the magic ingredient?

Dim

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Dim » Sat May 25, 2013 2:46 am

Rabbie wrote:Am planning to mulch once a month with farmyard manure sold at the big sheds. Will only be mulching June, July and August. It will all be dug in at end of season, given the lack heat this month it's hard to say if it's working. :cry:
Here is an interesting article about manure:

http://counties.cce.cornell.edu/washing ... uction.pdf

the 'organic well rotted manure' that is sold in bags at garden centres is what I have used in the past with good results (especially as a mulch around plants in Autumn) .... This has been properly composted, and all weed seeds have been killed by the high heat generated during the composting ...

The manure that you get from stables/farms has to be used with caution (as the article mentions) .... I have never added the farm manure to gardens, but have recently added some to my compost bins as it contains a high content of hay, which will supply the brown (carbon) content for the compost ...

but saying that, I have mates who grow vegetables on allotments, and all they use is farm horse manure (loads of it.... sometimes 6-8 inches thick), and they say it works well for them, and they maintain that it worked well for their fathers and their grandfathers

Dim

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Dim » Sat May 25, 2013 4:25 am

photonbucket wrote:That video was crazy! Worth a watch certainly. How do we know whats in the magic ingredient?
for a basic compost tea, you need 5 cups of worm compost, 5 cups of good topsoil from your garden or a wooded area, 3 heaped tablespoons of organic unsulphered blackstrap molasses.... all in a bucket with a decent sized aquarium airpump, 20-25 litres of water (rainwater is best and if you use tap water, you need to bubble it for 12 hours to remove chlorine), and an aquarium heater set at 20 degrees C .....

let it bubble and brew for 24 hrs then add it (undiluted) to your plants .... it should smell sweet and smell of soil .... if it smells sour/rotten, it has not worked and don't use it

the above is a basic recipe that I use and many people have their own recipes ....

I now 'supercharge' the compost tea by adding nutrients such as biobizz fishmix, rootgrow root food (humic and fulvic acids .... it's not the same stuff as Rootgrow Mycorrhizal fungi), alfalfa, seaweed extract, bloodmeal etc ... If you have made your own compost from kitchen waste, add a bit of that aswell

here is a pic taken a few minutes ago of my compost tea brewing (I started it yesterday afternoon at 5pm, and it will be ready today at 5pm) .... It has to be used ASAP once you switch the airpump off .... This batch is 25 litres, and costs pennies to make:

Image

Kristen

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Kristen » Sat May 25, 2013 8:31 am

Dim wrote:Here is an interesting article about manure:

[snip]

the 'organic well rotted manure' that is sold in bags at garden centres is what I have used
I expect it ain't "organic" though Dim?? JWK (you may remember from the GC forum) bought bags of manure labelled Organic from his local garden centre and it killed all his vegetables and contaminated his land for 18 months (it contained residue of the herbicide Aminopyralid)

Unless it is "certified organic" - the only Brand/Logo I know of that does/enforces that is the Soil Association - then its just marketing and band-wagon, sadly.

Aminopyralid is supposedly much better controlled now (but the instructions and risks were crystal clear before too ... and equivalent herbicides with persistent residues are now used in selective lawn weedkillers ...)
I have mates who grow vegetables on allotments, and all they use is farm horse manure (loads of it.... sometimes 6-8 inches thick), and they say it works well for them, and they maintain that it worked well for their fathers and their grandfathers
:) I think there is a risk that stable owners have no idea what is in their manure - e.g. they may get contractors to treat their pasture and not actually know what chemicals were used, and what residual effect they might have. Six-of-one and half-a-dozen of the other I reckon :(

I use tens of tonnes of manure a year on my garden. Plenty available locally, so its a good, relatively cheap, soil conditioner for me ... but there is some risk to my plants, and anyone worried about antibiotics / steroids getting in to their plants / food crops would do well to select the brands they use carefully. (I'm sure there are certified organic fertilisers and manure products out there, I've never seen them in my local garden centre though ... )

Kristen

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Kristen » Sat May 25, 2013 8:33 am

Dim wrote:here is a pic taken a few minutes ago of my compost tea brewing
Doesn't look any more obnoxious that they vile smelling stuff I make from comfrey :)

I really ought to give this a go ... I guess I'll just have to buy a one-stop-shop kit if I'm every going to get around to ir.

Dim

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Dim » Sat May 25, 2013 2:00 pm

Kristen wrote:
Dim wrote:here is a pic taken a few minutes ago of my compost tea brewing
Doesn't look any more obnoxious that they vile smelling stuff I make from comfrey :)

I really ought to give this a go ... I guess I'll just have to buy a one-stop-shop kit if I'm every going to get around to ir.
I just took a photo a few minutes ago to show much it has 'frothed' since this morning .... it smells sweet and like fresh earth, so it's good to go (I have never had a batch that went sour, and the key is to ensure that there is enough molasses, as that is what the microbes eat ... and enough air/oxygen)

Image



all you need is a large plastic bucket (I use a food grade beer brewers bucket that costs approx £15)....

a decent sized aquarium airpump (must be approx 45 liters/min and this is very important ... these koi pumps are regarded as ideal (the 50 l/min one):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Koi-Piston-Fi ... 2737wt_986

a decent aquarium heater... I paid approx £12, ... 2 large airstones and some fishtank tubing and you are ready to go ...

once you have those items which is a 1-off purchase, it's very cheap to brew the tea ...

Vagetarian

Re: What bulk fertiliser for tender big leaf growers?

Post by Vagetarian » Sun May 26, 2013 9:43 am

Compost tea doesn't seem like a bad idea but doing it relentlessly or on established soil might be a waste of effort. Your soil can only support so many microbes and adding more won't necessarily increase the count. It would probably be better to mix in the organic matter directly, thereby increasing the microbial carrying capacity. From there, the microbes can breed on their own, they've been doing it for a few billion years now.
Dim wrote:not according to this guy .... or the guys who hold the world records for giant pumkins etc .... (and they don't use miracle gro) :lol:
So, massive scientific double blind studies are wrong because an old pumpkin grower with a beard said so? :lol:

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